Saoirse's winter fast

[frankykeno]

Of course, I've already emailed Adam (thanks again Adam for putting up with me when I know you are so busy right now) but just looking for any ideas or wisdom here folks from anyone that's ever dealt with a wild caught adult. Also, most people I know just don't get why I'm worried about "some snake".

Saoire came in to us a few months back as an adult female that hadn't been in captivity more than a year as far as we know (perhaps 6 to 8 months). She'd never reportedly eaten and when pushed to do so, promptly regurged. She was also extremely fearful of contact and balled up very tightly. She is obviously an adult, is almost as long as our other female Orlah who is about 1,700 grams but came in at only 620 grams! Very thin with a triangular appearance.

We'd got her eating (again thanks to Adam for some bang on suggestions for dealing with WC adults). She quickly gained and was at 900 grams three weeks ago and coming along strong. All of a sudden she just stopped eating again. We had tried before to move her to the snake room and that caused her to stop eating. We put her back in our quiet bedroom, she started eating again. Then suddenly this. No apparent reason, no change in anything other than the light cycle as the season's have changed here in northern Michigan. Her tub has remained constant though so temps have not changed and her humidity is bang on. I am concerned though that we had just started to handle her more and perhaps this stressed her and triggered the fast. We've obviously stopped all handling other than contact with her each week to offer food and regular cage maintenance stuff.

I weighed her this week and she's not losing weight but I am concerned if there is any trick of the trade to get her eating again. We've tried all the things we did to get her eating the first time other than the hopper gerbil thing. We've tried different size rats, even a small mouse to see if that would trigger her....nothing...no interest whatsoever.

I'm wondering if this is just normal behaviour for a snake that lived wild for so much of her life? Due to Saoirse's low weight (even at 900 grams she's obviously still underweight) should I be more concerned that a snake that went into fast in much better condition? I don't want to stress her with a vet visit or over-react to this but I also don't want to be stupid and miss something with this snake. As much as I adore each one of them, Saoirse is just very special to me and I'm a bit more worried than I want to let on.

I am waiting for her to defecate again so I can take in a fecal sample just to rule out any issues that way, though she's had a clean fecal before.

Thanks folks!


~~Jo~~

[iceman25]

I'm no expert by any shot, but are you feeding her live or ft? When one of my previous wild caught rescues was behaving the same way during the winter months, I managed to break her fast by switching to smaller live prey like mice rubbed in gerbil bedding. But if its a fast, I would not worry about it too much as long as her fecal comes back aok.

[tigerlily]

Poor girl. I'm sure you've already tried the primeing the snake thing, by leaving the rodent in the room for a bit. Does she show any interest at all? Maybe try using artificial light to make the light cycles 14 hours on and 10 off. I just have a soft spot for her, so I hope you get her eating soon! Definitely let us know if you get her to eat!

[frankykeno]

Yep we've done the priming thing with her every week actually since we got her eating and continue to try it but she's just wanting to stay in her hides and not come out to hunt.

Ice, she's a live feed only type snake. She did once take f/t but I think we tricked her a bit lol and she never would accept it again. She's been a pretty consistent live feeder once we got her going so this is a bit frustrating.

Oh well as long as she's not losing any weight I'll not worry overly about it (okay I will worry but I won't pace, fret or otherwise drive my husband Mike nuts!) LOL


~~Jo~~

[mlededee]

this may not be the way you want to go with saoirse since she is just getting used to handling and is WC but it worked for me with 2 snakes that refused to eat for several months no matter what i did so i will share it (both of these snakes were CBB, one a settled female and used to people, one a male that wouldn't eat for me after i acquired it and still young and quite shy). i got a smallish rubbermaid container (smaller than the enclosures the snakes were kept in) and put several live rats in it along with some dirty bedding on feeding night. i left them in it for several hours then took them out and emptied the box. in the dark (and not having turned on any lights in the snake room that night) i placed the snake in the box, covered it with a towel and left them for 20-30 minutes to explore the enclosure and smell the nice rat smell. then i dropped in a smaller than normally offered live rat. after about 3 times of doing this the established female went back to nailing f/t and the male now nails live (but it does still have to be dark). i don't know if this is something you would want to try in your case, but it worked wonders for me.

[frankykeno]

That's an excellent suggestion Em! It may well work with Saoirse as she's really sticking to her hides even more than normal (and she is very very much a hide snake anyways). Thanks for suggesting it and we'll certainly put it on our list of ideas to try if this fast goes on too long or Saoirse starts to lose any appreciable amount of weight.

Even if it doesn't work for Saoirse, it's a great idea for others to make note of!


~~Jo~~

[rabernet]

As big as she is, 3 weeks isn't very long is it? Kashmire's on his second week of fasting and heading into his third. I'm just handling less and letting him be and will try again next week. Meanwhile, these stinky mice keep eating and getting fatter (I believe they're both female, I haven't really looked).


And I'm not running here and freaking out which is a huge accomplishment for me! I'm just going by his needs. I know his husbandry is good, I just figured he can tell the days are shorter. Hopefully he'll eat soon, but I won't freak out! LOL At least not yet!

[frankykeno]

At 900 grams she's a decent size. Normally I wouldn't even be all that concerned about 3 weeks of refusals but because even at 900 grams Saoirse is obviously still underweight for her length, I'm just a bit more concerned that she doesn't backslide again.

Thanks for the email btw Adam. I know you are terribly busy this time of year so it is even more appreciated.

As per Adam's suggestions, we're going to do some light cycle adjustments with Saoire and bump her ambients a little higher than normal to try and "wake her up" a bit. As Adam said, she may be also just reacting to getting all that good food after so long a fast. She did put on a significant amount of weight in a short time so she may just instinctively reacting to that, not knowing there isn't an end to the weekly rat meal. It may just take a lot more patience for this lovely WC female to get the concept that she gets to eat weekly.

We are also going to try quite small live prey with her next week to see if this will trigger her.

Thanks for all your concern folks. It's very heartwarming!


~~Jo~~