Live feeding: in-tank or separate tub?

[kalismami]

Hi

I have heard lots of conflicting opinions on whether it is better to feed in the tank or in a separate tub. I used to always feed my BP in her tank, but because I feed live I was taking all the stuff out of her enclosure every time and then putting it back in after she was done swallowing. I worried this might be stressing her out because she doesn’t like when I change ANYTHING about her little home but I think the rat would have too many places to hide if I left all her stuff in there. So anyways, I started feeding her in a plastic tub and very gently moving her back into her tank after the feeding, even though I’m wary about having to touch her after eating. She ate successfully in this tub twice but since then she has been refusing food for 2 months, which she has never done before. Should I try offering food in her cage again, and, if so, should I still move all the clutter out? Kind of a pain because her place is pretty packed. Thanks for any advice!!

[GoingPostal]

You should feed in the cage as feeding in another container only increases your chances of a bite or accidental regurge by handling/moving the snake. Why not offer f/t instead of live so you don't have to move everything or worry about it? I'd be looking into your temps and setup if the snake has refused food for two months though.

[kalismami]

I just couldn’t deal with thawing out a frozen rat, plus I think live feeding offers good enrichment. And since this hunger strike I’ve invested in all the gear to make sure my temps and humidity are perfect; I have 92 degree surface temp on the hotspot and about 78 degrees ambient temp on the cool side with 60% humidity. The guy at my reptile store said not to worry too much bc his BP also goes off feed in the winter, but I am concerned. She has a vet appt this week. But anyways thank U for the advice and I will try offering food again inside of the tank this time

[Hugsplox]

I just couldn’t deal with thawing out a frozen rat, plus I think live feeding offers good enrichment. And since this hunger strike I’ve invested in all the gear to make sure my temps and humidity are perfect; I have 92 degree surface temp on the hotspot and about 78 degrees ambient temp on the cool side with 60% humidity. The guy at my reptile store said not to worry too much bc his BP also goes off feed in the winter, but I am concerned. She has a vet appt this week. But anyways thank U for the advice and I will try offering food again inside of the tank this time

I think this is less an issue with what you're feeding and more an issue with how you're feeding. There really isn't any need to go in and remove everything from the enclosure, all you're doing is causing stress to the snake right before throwing a rat in with her. Remember in the wild these guys are ambush predators, and no one is sweeping into their environment and tidying up before a rat decides to walk past whatever burrow they're hiding in.

I would recommend waiting a couple of weeks and trying again, this time not removing anything. When I say two weeks I mean from the last feeding attempt you made. So if say you tried to feed on Friday the 5th, try again on the 19th. Let her get hungry and then without disrupting her entire environment, try again.

[kalismami]

Thank you, I’m going to try again on the 14th and hopefully this will work!

[kalismami]

Also, how long do y’all recommend keeping the rat in the tank before determining she just isn’t gonna eat it?

[nikkubus]

I don't feed live anymore for a number of reasons but I'm not going to try and change your mind. It's your choice. I used to do it simply because back then I didn't know f/t even existed and at the time I wasn't comfortable with killing the rat myself for pre-killed. I think removing the animal from their enclosure is a lot more disruptive than removing some items, but I still think removing the items is probably pretty disruptive, especially if you say you are trying to give "enrichment" through the hunting process. I understand wanting to be able to observe and make sure the rat isn't attacking him, so I think the solution might be to change what you have in the enclosure so it's still cluttered and feels like it has "hiding spots" to her, but you can still see what's going on. This is not really an option if you want things looking really naturalistic, but you could use translucent plastic hides that give them the cozy feeling of a burrow and block some light, but you can still view, and then whatever else like plants and things are in there aren't so cluttered that you have huge blind spots.

If you change your mind about live feeding, here is my method to thawing that makes things really easy (I have a lot of snakes to feed, especially when I've got a bunch of hatchlings, and I don't have time to waste):
-One or two days before feeding depending on the size of rodent I take the prey items I will be feeding out of the freezer and put them in the fridge, so I don't have to mess around swapping water over and over to keep it thawing safely.
-About 15-20 mins before feeding I put the prey (still in a ziplock) in a large pot of hot water and set myself a timer on my phone and go do something else while I wait.
-Timer goes off, I feed the snake, and unless it's a hatchling or snake I'm trying to switch to a different food, I just offer the item and it's usually struck immediately. If not, I set it on a hide and close the enclosure up and go about whatever I need to do and check back an hour later or so and grab it out to throw away if it didn't get eaten.
To me this process is a heck of a lot easier than dealing with live rodents, which I still do from time to time for stubborn hatchlings.

[EL-Ziggy]

I’d feed in the tank as well. I guess removing all the enclosure furnishings is just another drawback to feeding live. I wouldn’t leave the live prey in longer than 15-30 minutes. If they haven’t eaten by then they’re probably not going to. What do you do with the refused meals btw? Do you breed your own feeders?

[Hugsplox]

Also, how long do y’all recommend keeping the rat in the tank before determining she just isn’t gonna eat it?

Typically I know almost immediately if mine is going to eat or not. If he's eating that rat is wrapped in 5-10 minutes, and I usually remove after 20-30 if he's not showing any interest. Of course feeding live you never want to walk away, even for a second, while the rat is in there. I really want to stress that point, that you never EVER leave a live feeder in with your snake without you watching. When you're on fuzzies and pups you'd probably be okay, but I'd always rather play it safe.

Try to feed at night, I prefer 9pm as that's several hours after the lights in my reptile room go out. I like to leave the rat in a container in the room so the scent is out there. Most of the time my guy is coming out of the enclosure when I open it to look for the rat. I'd also recommend getting a good pair of metal feeding thongs to redirect any bites that may occur if you're going to continue feeding live.

Also to what Nikkubus said, maybe try rearranging the enclosure on a day you're not feeing. I have plenty of clutter in my tank but if my guy comes out of his warm hide and takes a left, there's a good size "clearing" where I typically put the rat. That way I can see what the BP is doing, I can see what the rate is doing, and if he tries to run off and hide somewhere I just gently redirect him with the thongs.

I also want to say before anyone jumps in and starts the F/T vs Live feeding debate, that this is just the method I use, that works for me. Feeding live isn't for everyone, and it's not for every snake. This works for me and my animal, and is why I continue doing it. It's up to each and every keeper to find what works for their animal, and ask long as you're willing to put the extra time into it to make sure it's safe, you should be fine.

[kalismami]

I’d feed in the tank as well. I guess removing all the enclosure furnishings is just another drawback to feeding live. I wouldn’t leave the live prey in longer than 15-30 minutes. If they haven’t eaten by then they’re probably not going to. What do you do with the refused meals btw? Do you breed your own feeders?

Funnily enough I go to a super pet friendly college so I have actually found people who have asked me to “adopt” the rats my snake has refused...not sure how well an inbred feeder rat would do as a pet but who knows ! I have also just set one free, it literally frolicked in the grass. I guess live feeding is starting to become a pain because of things like this but before she got so picky I used to consider it much more low maintenance! Just not sure if she would even eat a dead rat since she never has.