is this normal?

[DylanG]

Ok so I have had moe for a year now with no real problems to speak off. I noticed that after his last shed however he had a retained eye cap. So having read the forums I give him a soak in a tube of water. for about 45 mins to an hour. He loves it, once I take the lid off he just sits there, yesterday on his 2nd soak, I took the lid off after 30mins to see when he would come out. After an hour and 15 mins I took him out not knowing if this was healthy for him or not. Do balls normally soak them self’s for long periods of time before a shed and is there any health risk to him if I put a large soak dish in his cage and he did this on his own accord when ever he wanted? Moe swims around and loves to put his head underwater and to just stick his nose out for air. It is rather cute.

[Adam_Wysocki]

Soaking is not a normal behavior for ball pythons and can sometimes indicate a husbandry problem. Be careful not to confuse exploring something new and/or "hiding" under the water in an attempt to be secure with "liking" anything. Ball pythons are native to dry Africa savannas and spend their days crammed inside termite mounds and tortoise holes ... not water.

I keep a collection of 250 ball pythons (give or take) and not one of them ever attempts to soak on it's own.

Make sure your temps are 82-84 on one side of the enclosure, 92-94 on the other, humidity is 50% - 60%, and your snake has plenty of small tight places to hide.

-adam

[hafnon]

Soaking is not a normal behavior for ball pythons and can sometimes indicate a husbandry problem. Be careful not to confuse exploring something new and/or "hiding" under the water in an attempt to be secure with "liking" anything. Ball pythons are native to dry Africa savannas and spend their days crammed inside termite mounds and tortoise holes ... not water.


-adam

Sorry to do this Adam but I beg to differ... contrary to popular opinion the savanas around the equator are exceptionally moist... they can mabey be called dry in the dry season but then is the times that the ball pythons stay in their burrows almost perminantly because the daytime temperatures hit over 40 degrees centegrade... the relative humidity above ground is extremely high and underground in the burrows it is almost perminantly 100%... the balls main retreats are rat burrows in agricultural clearings.. these are the same burrows that they incubate their eggs in.... so the hummidity is very high especially in the burrows underground where they spend most of their time and only venture out at night... when the relative humidty is even higher than in the daytime

[vinnimac]

I have large dog bowls in my snake cages for humidity help and soaking ability, and occasionally will see someone laying in the bowl. Not very often, but it does happen. And my temps are kept correct at all times.

[DylanG]

So if I should need to soak moe because of a retained eye cap how often should I do it before he sheds? A day or two before. So far I have soak him twice, and he will shed today. Was this too much? I only thought moe liked it cause he is not shy at all. It has become very clear to me over the last year what makes him uncomfortable and what he likes. When moe does not like things he will always move away. the fact that the lid is off and he swims around and plays, and comes out on his own free will makes me think he likes it. However if it is not healthy for him I will not let it happen again. Just thought he might be like one of those odd cats that love water. Does anyone else have a snake that seems to like water?

[Adam_Wysocki]

Sorry to do this Adam but I beg to differ... contrary to popular opinion the savanas around the equator are exceptionally moist... they can mabey be called dry in the dry season but then is the times that the ball pythons stay in their burrows almost perminantly because the daytime temperatures hit over 40 degrees centegrade... the relative humidity above ground is extremely high and underground in the burrows it is almost perminantly 100%... the balls main retreats are rat burrows in agricultural clearings.. these are the same burrows that they incubate their eggs in.... so the hummidity is very high especially in the burrows underground where they spend most of their time and only venture out at night... when the relative humidty is even higher than in the daytime

So how many ball python do you come across soaking in the savanas?

High humidity and soaking are two different things.

Correct the husbandry issues with the humidity and there is no need for a ball python to soak.

-adam

[hafnon]

So how many ball python do you come across soaking in the savanas?


-adam

I hove no objection to your obsevation about soaking.... Just that the equatorial savannas are dry.

It will be hard to tell if wild balls do soak because they are so secretive. Its had to find them above ground during the day....

During the wet seasons however pretty much everything is watter-logged especially the underground burrows because the rainfall is so high... Thats why they lay eggs in the "dry season" ( which is still very humid) because during the rainy season its just too wet

So my point is..... most care sheets are based on the wrong assumption of Africa being drier and less humid than the other tropical areas.

On the soaking matter... I have a large number of wild caught adults all maintained in the same set of conditions.... Some of them never soak .... some of them soak while in the blue and some of them soak pretty much all the time...

The care sheets also point out that humidity should not be too high... I have found that balls even maintained for long periods at 100% humidity and very wet conditions do not develop RI's or scale rot... So its my observation that BP's handle humidity and wet condtions exceptionally well. In fact they thrive. Basically they seem to be very hardy and have a far wider range of tolerance than most care sheets give them credit.

In conclusion..... to say what is normal for a ball python and what is not would be very difficuilt since they display such a wide range of preferences and tolerances..... and thats not even taking into acount local and range difference

[Adam_Wysocki]

I hove no objection to your obsevation about soaking.... Just that the equatorial savannas are dry.

But they do have a dry season that, from what I am told, would make the idea of "soaking" within a body of water pretty much impossible ... I think that you even acknowledged this dry season yourself in your post.

I certainly wasn't providing any information on the mean, median, or average water, moisture, or humidity levels of "equatorial savannas" ... I was just pointing out that at soaking is impossible for ball pythons when their native environment is "dry" and it is certainly something that they can not do and still thrive.

I also was not debating the fact that "handle humidity and wet conditions exceptionally well" and I'm really not sure why you brought that or any other information stated in care sheets up, but it certainly did make you sound knowledgeable. Although, if you've ever seen a severe case of a water blisters on a ball python, you might have second thought about how well ball pythons handle "wet" conditions in captivity.

There are many ways to successfully keep these animals. I was sharing mine as well as my feelings based on observing literally thousands of ball pythons in the captive collections of professional ball python breeders that I have visited.

But thank you for trying to correct me. I always enjoy that.

-adam

[DylanG]

thanks guys. i always get good info here.

[RWillinnable]

I have never seen Shahrazad soak, but when he is in shed, once a day or so, I will take him out and while holding him I will dip my free fingers on my other hand into his water dish and wet my fingers and then gently rub the moisture into his skin. Of course, I always make sure his water is fresh. He seems to really like it and seems to be really curious as to why he is getting wet.

But the upside is that he is healthy as can be and has never had anything less than an ideal shed. I don't know if there is a causal or correlative relationship there, but it doesn't seem to hurt him.

Rachel