Will snakes go on "hunger strike" even if underweight?

[telfordthomas83]

Hi everyone,

I'm little concerned as the vet has told me that my BP is a little underweight when I bought him (nothing the vet is too worried about, but wants to monitor). I don't know if I'm overthinking it, but to me it feels like I'm doing something wrong?

The problem I'm having is that I haven't yet been able to find a way where he feeds consistently. Tease feeding worked, then it didn't, leaving the mouse alone in the Viv worked, and then it didn't. I've tried many different ways. The only thing I've managed to work out is he isn't that interested when I dangle the rat or try to "animate" it, in fact it seems to put him off.

He's only eatten twice in a month which I wouldn't be worried about normally but the vet said he could do with being on larger prey, but to see if his weight balances out before moving onto bigger prey. Is it possible he has gone on "hunger strike" even though he is a little underweight? Is this a "hunger strike" considering he is eatting, but just inconsistently?

The reason I've made this post is because he has just come out of shed which seems to have gone well, but unfortunately he pooed at the same time and for the life of me I couldn't inspect his shed because of it. I just want to basically give myself as much chance as possible of a successful feed tomorrow.

I've heard about scenting the rat with fish/tuna water and wanted to know how this worked. Is it just dipping it in or is there more to it? Is this successful or is it likely to put him off as its a new smell?

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks!

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[John1982]

Try not to over complicate things or worry. Stick with a method he's already accepted and I'm sure he'll come around to feeding more regularly for you eventually. Throwing a lot of different things/scents at a shyer critter can easily turn them off feeding entirely so just try to stay consistent.

[Bogertophis]

You have to ask yourself "why" is your snake not feeding as well as you expect.

Did you vet check his stool sample for parasites. Could there be anything wrong with his set-up? (high & low temps? humidity? substrate? hides? excessive handling?)

Too much motion from f/t prey DOES turn off a snake...especially shy snakes like BPs. It's important to help build your snake's confidence, believe it or not. BPs are
ambush-predators...feed him at night (normal hunting time) & offer food when he appears to be looking for it (peeking out of his hide). DO NOT approach the snake
with prey dancing from your tongs: instead, make it appear (slight wiggle motions) that the prey is cluelessly wandering past (not approaching but just out of reach)
where the snake is hiding...you want to elicit a slight chase from the snake, & let go when he catches up with it. Then be still...I mean it, really still, or some snakes
detect your motion & drop what they're doing.

BPs rely on heat sensing pits to find the high body temperature of rodents (& similar prey), so if your f/t rodents aren't warm enough, that may be the problem. Thaw
then warm up briefly in very warm water, & many here have the best luck by blasting with blow-dryer right before offering. Have you tried that? Rodents cool off fast,
so you have to be organized at the right time. Sorry, but you did choose a BP, & they are known to be fussy eaters...this just goes with the territory.

How long have you had this snake? Are you feeding him the same rodents (mice or rats, or?) as he was previously raised on? They don't smell or taste the same, and
again, many BPs are picky about this too.

I've never found it helpful to use chicken or tuna broth, btw. It won't likely help or if it seems to, it's just coincidence. Likely other causes...

No telling if this lack of desire to eat has to do with seasonal (cooler temps. & shorter daylight periods) but yes, even snakes that are underweight may refuse to eat now-
this is instinctive. In the wild, snakes that eat too late in the season & get stuck with a stomach full of food in weather too cold to digest can die from this...so those
making this mistake in the past did not survive to pass on their genes...thus, "natural selection" arrived created BPs (& most other snakes) that "know" to stop eating
when the fall/winter temperatures start to drop. In keeping snakes, especially BPs that need warmer temps. & tend to be fussy eaters, you want to keep up the ambient
temps. in the cage and the room where they are...also, consider adding more light in the room to help "fool them". It's hard to correct this situation once your snake has
already gotten chilled & decided it's time to fast.

Before you decide he is "fasting", make sure all other husbandry issues are spot on. Not likely that chicken or tuna broth will make a bit of difference...

[telfordthomas83]

Hi, I've checked the temperature and it seems all in order, I have a basking spot of 30°c and the cool end is normally around 25-26. He rarely leaves the basking spot in the day. Of a night, I drop the temperature down to 26°, with the cool end staying at about 22 at the absolute lowest.

He has two identical hides which he goes between but mainly he stays in the warm hide.

I don't know what he was previously fed on apart from large weaner rats (he is 1143g), the ones I am feeding him are white. I read that sometimes this might throw them off if they used to eat brown rats, not sure if that's actually true though?

I warm in hot water in a ziplock bag, then brain, and then blow-dry for about 15 seconds.

Something you have said has just made me think, I've always tried offering him the food while he is out and about exploring, I've never tried it while he is poking his head out the hide. Could this be causing issues if he is particularly shy?

I think, after reading your post and others, what I'm going to try is to wait til his head is poking out or just before to his normal night time activity (not fully exploring) and gently bob the rat up and down outside of his hide and then leave in the vivarium overnight. Does that sound like a plan or have I got something wrong?

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[Bogertophis]

Some BPs seem to have color preferences, possibly the result of getting bit when fed live & thereafter fearing similar rodents.

Has he EVER eaten for you? If he was on mice & you're offering rats, that could be the problem...

Never a fan of "braining"...try NOT doing that, IMO it doesn't help. But if you want to release more scent from f/t, just pinch-damage slightly the nose using tongs.

Yes, yes, yes...that COULD be the issue, trying to feed when he's cruising the cage. Watch & wait, feed at night...don't over-do the 'zombie-rat-dance'...keep it very
subtle. Too much motion scares off some snakes. Approaching the snake also puts most of them off...it's not normal. Hopefully he'll either grab it tomorrow, or at
least seem interested. YES, I'd leave it just outside his hide if not grabbed...some are so shy they'll only take with lights out at night, so leave it & go, don't check
until morning. Cross your fingers! Sometimes we just have to figure out what our own snakes need...good luck!

[ballpythonsrock2]

Hi, I've checked the temperature and it seems all in order, I have a basking spot of 30°c and the cool end is normally around 25-26. He rarely leaves the basking spot in the day. Of a night, I drop the temperature down to 26°, with the cool end staying at about 22 at the absolute lowest. 22 is too low. 27 is the lowest you want to go at night or anytime. If he is too cool it will absolutely affect his hunger. In fact i would try to go up to 28 and 29

I don't know what he was previously fed on apart from large weaner rats (he is 1143g), the ones I am feeding him are white. I read that sometimes this might throw them off if they used to eat brown rats, not sure if that's actually true though? I don't think that is the problem. More your temps and the feeder temps. and feeder size maybe I would go to medium rats 90 to 179 grams

I warm in hot water in a ziplock bag, then brain, and then blow-dry for about 15 seconds.

Something you have said has just made me think, I've always tried offering him the food while he is out and about exploring, I've never tried it while he is poking his head out the hide. Could this be causing issues if he is particularly shy You want to try to offer before he is out because once they are out they most the time just usually just run from food and become timid. So try to offer while he is still inside of the hide. Your right about that

I think, after reading your post and others, what I'm going to try is to wait til his head is poking out or just before to his normal night time activity (not fully exploring) and gently bob the rat up and down outside of his hide and then leave in the vivarium overnight. Does that sound like a plan or have I got something wrong? Good idea and I would use gentle movements indeed or sometimes you have to hold them completely still. It depends on the snake and how hungry it is as well. Or how timid it is. Good luck.

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PS the bold type is so you'll see my response that's all.

[303_enfield]

How old, weight an what rodent is being fed an rodent weight/size?
If you can get some size appropriate ASFs they will put weight on faster then anything else.

Bogertophis covered everything else.

Good luck!

Read this:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ing-Guidelines

[Zincubus]

Hi, I've checked the temperature and it seems all in order, I have a basking spot of 30°c and the cool end is normally around 25-26. He rarely leaves the basking spot in the day. Of a night, I drop the temperature down to 26°, with the cool end staying at about 22 at the absolute lowest.

He has two identical hides which he goes between but mainly he stays in the warm hide.

I don't know what he was previously fed on apart from large weaner rats (he is 1143g), the ones I am feeding him are white. I read that sometimes this might throw them off if they used to eat brown rats, not sure if that's actually true though?

I warm in hot water in a ziplock bag, then brain, and then blow-dry for about 15 seconds.

Something you have said has just made me think, I've always tried offering him the food while he is out and about exploring, I've never tried it while he is poking his head out the hide. Could this be causing issues if he is particularly shy?

I think, after reading your post and others, what I'm going to try is to wait til his head is poking out or just before to his normal night time activity (not fully exploring) and gently bob the rat up and down outside of his hide and then leave in the vivarium overnight. Does that sound like a plan or have I got something wrong?

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90% of the Royals I’ve had over the years would run for the hills whenever I dangled Mouse/ Rat in front of them when they were out and about .

I thaw the frozen rodents naturally in the snake room to get the scent circulating.. I don’t like the idea of thawing in water as it must wash away some of the vital rodent smell ..

Try feeding , evenings in dim/low lighting. ... wait until the snake is well settled under a hide then warm as you normally do .. have the viv /rub open and ready then dangle in front of the hide entrance INSTANTLY whilst it’s still warm ( the last bit is vital ).... if no luck just keep repeating and repeating ..


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[ballpythonsrock2]

90% of the Royals I’ve had over the years would run for the hills whenever I dangled Mouse/ Rat in front of them when they were out and about .

I thaw the frozen rodents naturally in the snake room to get the scent circulating.. I don’t like the idea of thawing in water as it must wash away some of the vital rodent smell ..

Try feeding , evenings in dim/low lighting. ... wait until the snake is well settled under a hide then warm as you normally do .. have the viv /rub open and ready then dangle in front of the hide entrance INSTANTLY whilst it’s still warm ( the last bit is vital ).... if no luck just keep repeating and repeating ..


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I totally agree with everything you said. Doing what you've said eliminates a lot of refusals for Royals. We both know it doesn't always work 100% of the time but it works this way the vast majority of the time. I totally agree about trying to feed once they are out and about. Best to feed before they come out or wait until they've went back in their hides.

I have been putting my f/t to thaw on the above trap door where the snake can see or smell it, but I think I will stop doing that because it draws it out and up to where the feeder is and gets it's nose right up there. I think I will next time do it out of sight or in the room like you've stated that way it is less likely to draw her out of the hide and towards the feeder. And I will try and time the 2 to 2 and 1/2 hours to be just about it's rise and shine time. That way it will be like (for us) smelling a crock pot that has been cooking all night. Nothing like a good rat/mouse breakfast/dinner served breakfast in bed style in the mind of a BP.

[telfordthomas83]

PS the bold type is so you'll see my response that's all.

I tried last night, no dice! Showed no interest in it at all, I dimmed the lights, waited for him to poke his head out his hide (but not come out), dangled in front of the hide with not a lot of movement other than a slight tremor ... Nothing

Taken out, warmed again with the hair dryer, he had disappeared back into his hide, kept warming and retrying for about 10 minutes and he just was not interested at all.

I left the rat on some decoration that I have in the hide and covered the viv with a black fitted sheet to try and give him some privacy. Checked after an hour and all he had done was knocked the rat off and was sitting on it himself. Left in the Viv overnight, nothing.

I have an idea for my next attempt, which I'm going to try over the next few days, which is to feed him when it's completely dark and we've all gone to bed (he is currently situated in the living room - I wonder if the noise is putting him off).

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