Strange Feeding Response and Tips for Feeding in Enclosure?

[royalreilly]

This post is a wild ride, so please hold on tight. TLDR at the bottom because I ramble a lot when I'm nervous, haha.

So my ~4.5 year old male BP has started acting strange about feeding. For the past 2 years or so he's been eating about once every other week. However since summer started he's been giving feeding responses and "telling" me he wants food closer to once a week. I usually cave but I don't want him to get too "chubby" because of it. This last feeding I waited 2 weeks to feed him again. His feeding response was absolutely INSANE. Before I even got the rat out of the plastic bag or opened his enclosure he was right up at the glass raising his head and flicking his tongue.

Here's where the story gets "cringey" I guess. So I've always moved him to a separate feeding tub to feed him. Before you get onto me, when I first got him that's the thing I read all over the internet to do. In recent years I've learned that that's not necessarily the best way to do it, but I've also been under the impression that as long as he didn't show signs of stress, regurge, etc. it was fine to keep doing it since he was already used to it. However, I think the events of this week's feeding have changed my mind.

So I live with my parents. I went out to them and asked for "back up" just to make sure he wouldn't like, jump out while I was turned around getting the rat out. I thought to myself, "Okay, I think this might be the night to try just feeding him in the enclosure, because he is NOT going to be picked up without striking." However, my dad came in saying "we can't do that, he's going to get cage aggression if we feed him in here, we've always done it the other way" and etc. I tried to tell him that cage aggression has been proven to not really be true, and I knew the snake better than him, and I though feeding in the enclosure would be safer that night. Well he grabbed the snake anyway and moved him, narrowly missing being struck. When the snake was in the separate bin he was still going crazy and he ended up hitting his own tail with a strike. It was very quick and he didn't pierce his own scales, but it made me very upset that my dad didn't listen to me and that ended up happening.

I fed him on Wednesday night. Yesterday (Thursday) he was still giving a feeding response when I would move past the enclosure. Surely he can't really be still "hungry" after eating a whole rat?? I know some snakes can still be giving the feeding response a while after eating, but he's usually a rock for a few days after a meal. He has not been weighed in a long time. I'm planning on weighing him tomorrow during the day since it'll be over 48 hrs since eating and hopefully in the daylight he won't be thinking about food so much. For reference he currently eats f/t small rats and has for a while. If he's over 500 grams I guess I should consider trying medium rats?



TDLR: So this post has really 2 main questions.
1) Why is he suddenly acting this way when he never has before? Growth spurt? Rebellious hungry teenager phase? I really don't know, lol.
2) How can I safely switch to feeding in the enclosure? My parents' 2 biggest concerns are cage aggression, and the possibility of him eating substrate. I don't know how to convince them that cage aggression isn't real. And how to I prevent him from eating substrate? We use coco-fiber. I know you can set the rat on top of something, but won't he still drag it around? Any tips for transitioning and easing my parents' worries? (Please, they won't believe me even though he's my snake and I'm an adult )

Oh and here's some recent pics of him so you can kind of get an idea of his weight class / size. I'd say he's a nice thick guy, but not unhealthily chubby. But it's really difficult to tell if a snake is over/underweight, so I'd love to hear other opinions. I DO NOT want to cave and feed him every 7 days if it's okay not to, because I'm so worried about him becoming overweight.


Thank you soooooo much! I know you can't necessarily help with the human aspect of this situation, but I know you guys always have good, kind-hearted advice. (Also I will just say real quickly that I really love my family and I don't want to be berating them / making them feel bad even if they make some mistakes. <3) I'm honestly really stressed out about this situation and my family not listening to me, but you guys are always so sweet. Appreciate you guys on this forum.

[Mommabear.Yoli]

They eat dirt when they eat in the wild I'm sure. So them possibly eating some substrate ( which is definitely cleaner than wild dirt) is not a big deal. Two of the ones we have eat butt first with mouths full of substrate guaranteed Everytime. They r silly. I would just just start feeding every 10 days and then 11 then working back to two weeks or so. That should help with him not feeling "starving " lol
My 5 year old has one in his room , always fed it in the enclosure. He takes it out daily after 48 hrs of eating of course. He's never been bitten or even hissed it.


Good luck !

[royalreilly]

They eat dirt when they eat in the wild I'm sure. So them possibly eating some substrate ( which is definitely cleaner than wild dirt) is not a big deal. Two of the ones we have eat butt first with mouths full of substrate guaranteed Everytime. They r silly. I would just just start feeding every 10 days and then 11 then working back to two weeks or so. That should help with him not feeling "starving " lol
My 5 year old has one in his room , always fed it in the enclosure. He takes it out daily after 48 hrs of eating of course. He's never been bitten or even hissed it.


Good luck !

Thank you! Do you set the rats on top of some type of barrier, or just directly on the substrate?

[Craiga 01453]

It sounds to me like your snake is just being a snake. I have some that typically show very little food response but occasionally they act as if they haven't eaten in years.

As far as the seperate feeding tub, you're right. It's been proven outdated and counterproductive.
- I've been feeding all my snakes inside their enclosures for years, and up until last week I had NEVER been struck at INSIDE the enclosure. (My Borneo STP struck the other day, but not during feeding time). The "cage aggression" has been proven to be nothing more than a myth.

That being said, if a seperate feeding tub has been working for you and your snake for a few years I don't see any harm in continuing to feed that way.
On the other hand, it couldn't hurt to start feeding inside the enclosure either. If he'll eat. It may be tough to transition him at this point, but as a well fed adult a few missed meals over a few weeks or months won't hurt if it takes a few tries to get him eating.

If you're interested in convincing your Dad that feeding tubs are old school and counter productive you could bring up some of the many threads on this forum that prove feeding tubs have basically gone obsolete. Present it almost like a school assignment. It may help him understand.

[royalreilly]

It sounds to me like your snake is just being a snake. I have some that typically show very little food response but occasionally they act as if they haven't eaten in years.

As far as the seperate feeding tub, you're right. It's been proven outdated and counterproductive.
- I've been feeding all my snakes inside their enclosures for years, and up until last week I had NEVER been struck at INSIDE the enclosure. (My Borneo STP struck the other day, but not during feeding time). The "cage aggression" has been proven to be nothing more than a myth.

That being said, if a seperate feeding tub has been working for you and your snake for a few years I don't see any harm in continuing to feed that way.
On the other hand, it couldn't hurt to start feeding inside the enclosure either. If he'll eat. It may be tough to transition him at this point, but as a well fed adult a few missed meals over a few weeks or months won't hurt if it takes a few tries to get him eating.

If you're interested in convincing your Dad that feeding tubs are old school and counter productive you could bring up some of the many threads on this forum that prove feeding tubs have basically gone obsolete. Present it almost like a school assignment. It may help him understand.

Thank you! I think I might try feeding in the enclosure. I don't think he would refuse, at least right now, seeing the way he was trying to strike my dad's hands as if he was the tastiest looking rat ever, haha.

I think my parents are just worried about it because my uncle had a snake a long time ago (before I was even born.) I think he told them about cage aggression and stuff, so they've known about that kind of thing for a long time, even if it's been proven false now.

I may consider switching him up to medium rats to see if that calms down how often he wants to eat if he weighs over 500g, but gee I really wouldn't think an adult male would ever need medium rats? I don't have much perspective because he's my only snake, but he does seem a little large for a male to me. Guess we'll find out when I weigh him

[Mommabear.Yoli]

They snatch it straight out of the tongs. Open cage,. Dangle in front of dangle noodle maybe boot the snoot with it. They will grab it straight up ! We feed in the evening about 7 with the lights dim . If that helps

[EL-Ziggy]

I'm also a proponent of feeding snakes inside their enclosure. Moving them is stressful to the snake and the keeper IMO. I have 11 snakes and some of them are, or will be, pretty big animals. There's no way I'd want to try to move them once they're in feeding mode and especially after they've eaten and wanting more. It's challenging enough getting the right timing to open the enclosure and offer them prey. I try to keep feeding as simple and pain free as possible. As far as prey size and feeding frequency for your BP, I wouldn't offer food any more than every 10-14 days. A lot of snakes will eat whenever they can but that doesn't mean we should always feed then when they want food. Especially for older, well established, animals. Judging from your pictures, small or medium rats would be fine for your critter but lots of folks never feed their male BPs anything more than a small rat all it's life. I probably feed a little more generously than most and would mix it up between smalls and mediums.

[Bogertophis]

Are you sure this is a male snake? Weight looks good in photos, but the appetite suggests a female to me. Just saying... Pretty snake, btw. Many snakes show a big
increase in appetite during warm summer weather- it's not only yours.

I've been feeding a countless # of snakes for about 34 years now*...ALWAYS in their normal enclosures without a problem with "cage aggression", lol. *For some years I
routinely had 85-90 snakes, though that number rose temporarily to about 150 with offspring in a few years...so I'm really "new" at this. Most normal healthy snakes
will see motion near their cage as possible incoming food: why? -they don't identify things accurately with vision...they need scent &/or touch to narrow it down, so don't
take it personal, just use their best senses to let them know what's going on. I often blow air across my hand thru the screen top in their direction so they get my scent-
they typically back off right away. You can even use a light spray of water to their face for a really stubborn snake...it's no different than getting rained on in the wild, but
it quickly 'changes their channel'. Some snakes (those that have been handled as your pet for a while) respond better to being touched, & if you need to keep your hands
out of reach, just use a "snake hook" or other stick of some kind (nothing sharp, obviously, but even dull BBQ tongs work fine, or a long cardboard tube from gift wrap roll will work).

As far as keeping substrate out of their mouths, I prefer to put something down (like a sheet of cardboard or box lid, or plastic tote lid) IF your snake tends to drag their
food around. Most of my snakes grab food right from my tongs & don't let loose enough to pick up debris, but I watch, in case, & use my 12" tweezers to pick a shred of
paper from their mouth that's about to be swallowed. (mostly colubrids here, kept on Carefresh/paper shreds) Minor stuff ingested will pass anyway, I'd worry more about them consuming orchid bark or any twigs, as snakes cannot digest wood/plant fibers & can get a blockage, though it's not real common.

It's frustrating but SO typical to have parents continue to treat grown kids as children, not adults....worse if you live with them, usually helps to move out on your own, lol. BTW, at 4.5 years old, your snake is an adult too, not a "rebellious teenager".

[ballpythonsrock2]

They snatch it straight out of the tongs. Open cage,. Dangle in front of dangle noodle maybe boot the snoot with it. They will grab it straight up ! We feed in the evening about 7 with the lights dim . If that helps

Sorry but I can't totally agree with boot the snoot I can agree with getting up close and personal but not with tapping the snakes nose . It would depend on the snake. Some snakes go out of feed mode when tapped. You want to do things that encourage eating and these guys can be real timid. Not so much as adults but still I wouldn't do the tap thing personally. You might cause him to go out of feeding mode. An inch from the nose Ya, but no touching it.

I think you have realized the truth about feeding in the enclosure. You figured it out for yourself. Reaching your hand in when the snake is in feed mode is inviting cage aggression as you saw with your dad reaching in. I would rather get my snake in feed mode by having the feeder on top the enclosure and the use tongs or tweezers and hold the rat by the tail and present it. If your rat is good and dry there won't be a lot of substrate sticking to it. You know how to deal with your dad better than us, you know him. So don't let it become a big issue a lot of people believe and are taught that way. You might have to do it his way like stated no great harm done. But like you did you might want to let him do the reaching in. Lol.


Here is a great video for you too watch about feeding in the enclosure. Posted by Dakski https://streamable.com/xh0qy

I wouldn't personally go to larger than smalls (50-80 gram) rats. That will discourage good eating I would definitively stick to smalls for now, and feed every 10 days to 2 weeks. Which ever keeps working. There is a feeding chart on here to help you.

[Craiga 01453]

I would stick to small rats. Mediums are too big for your boy. I have 2 males, one around 1100 grams the other 1400 grams. They both eat a small rat every 10-14 days and are in great shape.