Food Strike - Getting a Little Concerned

[Shayne]

Ok y'all, I got Kitana, a 7 month old female Blade Clown, a month ago and she still hasn't eaten. She weighed 212 grams the day I got her and 30 days later she's down to 198 grams. The breeder told me she ate her 1st frozen rat pup a week before I got her. I've tried F/T rat pups and F/T adult mice with absolutely no luck. If she was older I wouldn't be as concerned but she's still very young and starting to lose weight. I know my feeding method works due to my boy Monty eating religiously like his life depends on that very meal, that very day. Huge appetite and has never missed a single meal.

Kitana's in a 41 qt. tub with a hide on the warm side (90 degrees) and the same type hide on the cool side (80 degrees), with humidity ranging from 62-67 on any given day. I haven't messed with her since I got her a month ago but only to weigh her on the 1st day and tonight. Any help from the resident experts would be greatly appreciated.

[Moose84]

What was the breeder keeping her in? 40 qt for a 200 gram BP is awfully big. That’s typically what full grown females go into... I have a 200 gram female in a 21 qt and she hasn’t missed a meal since I got her. Maybe try getting her back to what she was used to last month before going into that huge tub.

[Moose84]

Smaller set up and then try a live mouse. She’s plenty big to make quick work of that. My best guess is that tub is way to big compared to what she was in.

[Shayne]

Smaller set up and then try a live mouse. She’s plenty big to make quick work of that. My best guess is that tub is way to big compared to what she was in.

Gonna hit the Wal-Mart 1st thing tomorrow and get her set up. Thanks so much for the insight.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

1 f'/t does not mean the animal is converted unless the animal as ate 5 f/t consecutively and successfully it is not a f/t eater.

The amount of weight loss is nothing and can account for a bowel movement.

Downsize to a 12 quarts tub and offer live for 3 to 5 meals before trying to switch.

The priority is to get the animal to eat for you for now.

[Shayne]

1 f'/t does not mean the animal is converted unless the animal as ate 5 f/t consecutively and successfully it is not a f/t eater.

The amount of weight loss is nothing and can account for a bowel movement.

Downsize to a 12 quarts tub and offer live for 3 to 5 meals before trying to switch.

The priority is to get the animal to eat for you for now.

Awesome! I was hoping you'd jump in here. Thanks so much, Deborah.

Gonna head into town tomorrow and get a new container.

[RedRabbit]

Deborah beat me to it, but I was also wanting to chime in that you don't need to worry that much about the amount of weight "loss" you've documented. If Kitana has peed or pooped at all in the last 30 days, that's enough to account for a drop from 212g to 198g. For reference, I weighed Iggy a few nights ago and he came in at 281g. He then gifted me with a massive pee the very next morning (big puddle, large blobs of urate, the works), so I re-weighed him, and he was down to 265g.

Also, each individual BP is different, so don't be discouraged or alarmed if what worked for Monty doesn't necessarily work for Kitana. You lucked out in that Monty has been a little model citizen for you from the start. Now it's time for a fresh round of trial and error with your new girl, and that's totally okay.

Even though both my BPs were housed into 32qt Sterilite tubs (with lots of clutter and cover) as soon as I got them, and neither has had issues with this, I would still second the suggestion to down-size Kitana's tub for now. For both Iggy and Ravus, I had a 15qt tub prepared as back-up, with air-holes already drilled and everything, just in case the 32qt didn't work out. Now I just use the 15qts as "transport" tubs for the snakes, when the weather is warm enough to not need any additional insulation (which, in Southern California, is most of the time anyway).

Some additional questions:
- I know you mentioned that she had just taken her first f/t rat pup right before you got her, but was she already okay with taking live rat pups/fuzzies prior to that?
- Are the sides of her tub transparent or opaque? That will also affect how exposed vs. secure she feels in her tub, regardless of dimensions. If you're going with transparent so that you can view her in the tub, then consider placing her tub in a low-traffic room, as well as covering her tub with a towel after she takes her food, so she gets that extra bit of privacy while she eats.

[RedRabbit]

Oops, also!

- The 12-15qt tub size range is pretty small, so you may only be able to fit one hide and a water dish in there. You'll also need a UTH with a smaller surface area than the one on your big tub, so that the hot end isn't taking up most of the temperature gradient. Place the hide on the warm side and the water dish on the cool side. Tubs hold humidity very effectively, so a water dish on the warm side would evaporate quickly and would likely overshoot your target humidity.

- You might already be doing this, but I recommend paper towel substrate for a new arrival who's still working out feeding issues. It'll make it easier for you to monitor the color and consistency of stools and urates, and of course to spot mites as well.

[Shayne]

Deborah beat me to it, but I was also wanting to chime in that you don't need to worry that much about the amount of weight "loss" you've documented. If Kitana has peed or pooped at all in the last 30 days, that's enough to account for a drop from 212g to 198g. For reference, I weighed Iggy a few nights ago and he came in at 281g. He then gifted me with a massive pee the very next morning (big puddle, large blobs of urate, the works), so I re-weighed him, and he was down to 265g.

Also, each individual BP is different, so don't be discouraged or alarmed if what worked for Monty doesn't necessarily work for Kitana. You lucked out in that Monty has been a little model citizen for you from the start. Now it's time for a fresh round of trial and error with your new girl, and that's totally okay.

Even though both my BPs were housed into 32qt Sterilite tubs (with lots of clutter and cover) as soon as I got them, and neither has had issues with this, I would still second the suggestion to down-size Kitana's tub for now. For both Iggy and Ravus, I had a 15qt tub prepared as back-up, with air-holes already drilled and everything, just in case the 32qt didn't work out. Now I just use the 15qts as "transport" tubs for the snakes, when the weather is warm enough to not need any additional insulation (which, in Southern California, is most of the time anyway).

Some additional questions:
- I know you mentioned that she had just taken her first f/t rat pup right before you got her, but was she already okay with taking live rat pups/fuzzies prior to that?
- Are the sides of her tub transparent or opaque? That will also affect how exposed vs. secure she feels in her tub, regardless of dimensions. If you're going with transparent so that you can view her in the tub, then consider placing her tub in a low-traffic room, as well as covering her tub with a towel after she takes her food, so she gets that extra bit of privacy while she eats.

Ahhh makes sense. She did poop about a week after I got her. Yes, Monty has spoiled me rotten. Now I wish it would've been the other way around. lol Get the "feeding" challenges outta the way first. Oh well, whatcha gonna do, right?

I typically try to keep a couple containers on backup just in case I need them but didn't have any that small. Got some new, smaller UTHs on the way too.

The tub is a bit "fuzzy". You can see inside but it isn't clear. She seems to be "happy". Snoozing in her hide during the day and roaming everywhere at night. She just shows zero interest in F/T anything. I'm gonna get her settled in the new, smaller tub for a week or so then I'll try a live mouse and see how she does. Will update as I progress.

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain some things. It's much appreciated.

[WhompingWillow]

It really does sound like you are doing everything right, so as hard as it is, try not to worry too much at this point. Snakes, even at that size, can go a looong time without eating. Is it ideal if she starts eating sooner rather than later? Of course. But as others have mentioned ~14 grams is negligible weight loss. I've had an 88 gram carpet python make me wait 6 weeks before she first took a meal and she is none the worse for wear. I also had an ~50 gram carpet python eat two small meals in 3 months before I had to intervene. Sometimes all it takes is time.

I know you're well-versed in feeding tricks because of Monty, but have you tried leaving the rat/mouse if she doesn't strike off tongs? Have you tried running the head under very hot water before offering for a better heat signature?