New Snek Momma

[Neiska]

Hello BP forums!

First off I would like to say in advance thank you for all the advice and tips. All of my questions and pressing matters have already been addressed, so thank you all for that! And a special thank you to SilentHill who was answering my questions in the front page while waiting for my account to register!

Anyway, first time snake owner here. I always wanted one and about two months ago I decided to get one. So I did my research, got a terrarium and my supply list, and made sure the temperature and settings were good. Then once all that was done, I decided to get one. I ended up getting a Blue Eyed Leucitic (fell in love with them) who I have named Luna. Luna is female and she is two months old now. I ordered her from an online website that is near to me, who had good ratings and reviews.

She got home on the 14th, and seems to be doing well. I am still a bit nervous, being a first timer and all. So I would like to post my information about her so far just so people can point out anything that might cause issues down the road.

I cant post pictures right now (I'm at work), but I can post some if needed.

Terrarium setup -
A 40 gallon glass tank, that I divided into two with a removable wall. So her space is roughly 20 gallons, and I use the unused space for extra storage.
Her hot side is 90F, and her cold side is 80F. Both are under tank heaters, controlled with a sensor and thermostat.
Her humidity is a constant 50-60. I had problems at first, but I got a clear plastic vinyl sheet to go over it. (the same kind that goes on desks to protect them.) I then put holes in it. Ever sense then No humidity issues. If it creeps up past 65, I just open the top a little bit and it creeps back down.
My only worry is her air temperature, its usually between 71-73F. I rent the lowest floor of a house, and its partially sub-grade. I haven't noticed any issues yet, but what can I do to raise the air temperature if that's needed? I read you can use heat lamps with the ceramic bulbs, but how would you control the temperature? I don't think you could really use the same sensor and thermostat setup , so any guidance here would be appreciated.
She has two hides, one on the hot side and one on the cold.
She has a heavy water bowl which I change out every day or every other day.
I use the Zoo Med coconut fiber substrate. (I went with that because I was having humidity problems to start, and read that holds the moisture better.)

I think that's it as far as Terrarium setup goes?

Feeding-
Luna has refused two frozen/thawed fuzzies. Both were heated up in 105 degree water (in a plastic baggie) until the mouse was 90+. Then i hit it with a hair drier and offered it to her using feeder tongs. (And I did try to mimic movement both times,) but Luna wasn't having it. She wasn't interested, at all. The second time I offered a Fuzzy I read up on "braining" them, so I snipped open the top with utility scissors, and even then no luck.
However she did accept a live fuzzy on the 25th, which I was very happy about. I would like to get her on frozen/thawed, but right now I'm just happy she ate something. I plan on offering her more live feeders until shes eating constantly, then try to convert her over to frozen/thawed at a later date.
I did contact the Breeder and She said that Luna ate both live and frozen, but she has yet to accept a Frozen/thawed from me. But for right now, I am just happy she ate. We will see again on Sunday I guess!

Her next feed day will be the 31st.

Shedding -
Luna had her first successful shed. It came off in one whole piece, I checked her to make sure there were no eye caps or skin tags and so on. No issues there so happy snake mommy!

Handling -
I have only handled her 3 times sense she got home. I inspected her when she first arrived to make sure she looked happy and healthy. Then for her first feeding I tried to move her to a separate Tub. (it didn't work, that was one of the refused frozen/thawed). Then I handled her when she finished shedding about a week ago, checked for problems or issues. There were none so I put her back. All 3 handling's were brief, under 5-10 minutes.

Behavior -
She spent most of the two weeks hiding in her hot hide pretty much 24/7. I did catch her under her water bowl twice, and did catch her drinking and yawning. She is still a very shy girl! Anytime she sees me she freezes, and then moves to hide when I am out of sight.

Though last night when I got home it was completely different. (I basically got a show) Luna was playing in her plastic plants, generally crawling around, tongue flickering. Wrapping around her water bowl, trying to explore around. She even rested against the glass in plain view for about an hour. She still hid if she saw me though. Later in the evening I caught her playing "peek a boo" by raising her head to look at me, and would keep looking until I looked back, then she would creep back down again. But soon as I looked back to the TV, up her head would slowly pop again. It was pretty cute honestly.

Anyway, she was pretty active last night in the evening. This morning she was back to hiding under her water bowl with just her nosetip peeking out.

And that's it I think? I think I have a pretty good start on things. My only two bumps are the frozen/thawed, and the ambient air temperature. I am not planning on trying to get her on frozen now, until shes consistently eating. As far as the Ambient Air temp well, I'm not sure if 71-73 range is too cold, and how to fix it if it is.

Thank you all for the advice already, and I do hope my settings and snek care has been up to par. As I said I am still learning things. I can't wait until shes calmed down and relaxed enough to trust me. No idea how long that usually takes, as you guys mentioned every snake is different. so just got to be patient I guess!

Thanks Bunches!

Neiska

[Craiga 01453]

Hello! Welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of snake keeping!!

I did notice a few things, I'll just go in chronological order of your thread:

- the ambient temps need to come up a bit. 75 should be the absolute minimum. In order to achieve those temps it's important to understand that your UTH is there solely to provide a hot spot and not for ambient temps. So, unless the room the snake is in remains at a constant temp in the lower 80s you'll need an additional heat source. You can use a lamp with bulbs or CHEs.



- as for feeding, fuzzies are WAY too small for a BP. They eat hoppers right out of the egg for their first few meals only, typically 3-5 meals, and quickly move up to small adult mice.

You also may need to tweak the way you're heating. With a water temp that hot you may actually be cooking the mouse. Try lowering the temp to something that feels warm, but not hot, to the touch.

Also, don't bother with braining. You want to be consistent in the way you offer. So, heat an appropriately sized prey item and offer. If refused, wait a week and offer again.


- on to handling... You seem to be doing fine there. Keep handling to an absolute bare minimum until the snake has eaten three consecutive meals without refusal.

BUT, I did notice one MAJOR issue. Do NOT move the snake to a seperate feeding tub. Feed INSIDE the enclosure. Feeding tubs are old school and proven counter productive over time.

Transferring to a feeder tub will a) increase the chance of a refusal since moving the snake can stress it.... b) increase the chance of the snake regurgitating it's prey due to the stress of the snake being moved after it eats (if it eats) and ..... c) drastically increase your chances of being bitten since the snake will be in feed mode (this can last 24+ hours after feeding).



- lastly, her behavior indicates she's hungry. That would make sense since she's only eaten 1 meal with you and the prey item was way too small.

Try getting appropriately sized F/T prey and defrost in warm water, not hot. Feed at night IN THE ENCLOSURE.

Hope I helped. Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

[Zincubus]

Welcome !!!


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[Neiska]

Hello Craig, thank you for your reply!

Alright, I will try a frozen hopper then, and if that doesn't work then I will get a live one. And I can turn the temperature down of the water, its just what was coming out of the facet and I took the temp with the heat all the way up. The only think I read about offering frozen mice was to make sure they were 90f.

I do have a lamp and ceramic bulb, but no way to control it aside from plugging it in. And i do worry that it will melt the vinyl sheet I use for humidity. But push comes to shove, I can spray mist for humidity without the sheet. Not sure what you mean by CHE, (Ceramic heat emitter?)

The tub thing was more or less me being anxious to get her to eat. People seem to encourage different things, tub vs no tub, among other things. I plan on feeding her in her enclosure from now on.

Far as prey size goes, I thought you wanted a prey item no bigger than the widest part of her body?

Thanks bunches!

Neiska

[pretends2bnormal]

- as for feeding, fuzzies are WAY too small for a BP. They eat hoppers right out of the egg for their first few meals only, typically 3-5 meals, and quickly move up to small adult mice.

I didn't see in the post that the type of prey was stated for mouse vs rat, so want to add that it is specifically MOUSE fuzzies are too small. Rat fuzzies are appropriate for a young BP, so if OP means rat fuzzies then it is likely fine for a 2 month old snake. (You can weigh the snake and prey using a kitchen scale, generally folks use grams, to confirm it is a good size. You want the prey to be about 10% of the snake's body weight.)

Adding the feeding chart for reference for OP.


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[Craiga 01453]

Hello Craig, thank you for your reply!

Alright, I will try a frozen hopper then, and if that doesn't work then I will get a live one. And I can turn the temperature down of the water, its just what was coming out of the facet and I took the temp with the heat all the way up. The only think I read about offering frozen mice was to make sure they were 90f.

I do have a lamp and ceramic bulb, but no way to control it aside from plugging it in. And i do worry that it will melt the vinyl sheet I use for humidity. But push comes to shove, I can spray mist for humidity without the sheet. Not sure what you mean by CHE, (Ceramic heat emitter?)

The tub thing was more or less me being anxious to get her to eat. People seem to encourage different things, tub vs no tub, among other things. I plan on feeding her in her enclosure from now on.

Far as prey size goes, I thought you wanted a prey item no bigger than the widest part of her body?

Thanks bunches!

Neiska

You can go right to small mice. Since your snake was eating for the breeder she's already had 3-5 meals (a responsible breeder wouldn't sell an animal that hadn't eaten at least that).

You also want to aim for closer to 100 degrees when offering prey.

You're right, ALL heat sources should be regulated by a thermostat. So, you'll need another.
Running ambient temps below 75 you run the risk of your snake developing respiratory infection (RI).

There are 2 general rules of thumb for feeding juvenile BPs. 1) the prey item should be roughly the same size around as the snake at its widest point and 2) the prey item should be 10-15% of the snakes weight.

I'd be happy to share some of my tips for glass enclosures if you're interested. I've been using them since 2000ish with success. They take a bit more effort to get set up and dialed in, but once done it's easy.


....I was just about to share the same feeding chart above too

[Neiska]

Update!

Okay, first off yes, i meant a mouse fuzzy, not a rat fuzzy, in my orginal post. so likely was too small.

So i went out and got her a new regular mouse. Will attempt a feeding later tonight, will let you guys know what happens.

Also, i did add a heat lamp, but im still not sure what sort of control device to use for it, as personally im not really comfortable just plugging it into the wall. is there a control you guys would recommend for a ceramic heat lamp?

These are the control devices i use for my UTH's, one for the hot and one for the cold.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So is there something like this for heat lamps that goes by air temperature, because im not sure if that sensor would work or not. If it does then great, i can just get another one. But if not what do you guys recommend using?

Thanks bunches again, fingers crossed she eats tonight!

Neiska

[Craiga 01453]

I would unplug one UTH. Use the remaining one for ypur hot spot. Then plug the lamp into the other tstat

[Neiska]

alright, will do that, and will move the probe to the side of the tank. thanks bunches!

[Craiga 01453]

alright, will do that, and will move the probe to the side of the tank. thanks bunches!

You're very Welcome!

Feel free to PM me if you have other questions.
I'd be happy to help if you have any humidity issues once the lamp is in use (they unfortunately zap humidity). Depending where you're located you may need to tweak things to make humidity work.