Assist Feeding - It had to be done and now I need advice.

[Stealth]

Hi Guys,

So I have a one and a half month old Ball Python, she has been missing a lot of meals and when I saw her today she just looked so extremely skinny (80grams) and I just got worried and decided to feed. She didn't take again so I tried my luck with assist feeding, it was really stressful on both me and her, and she ended up spitting it out.

Now my question is, when should i try feeding her again? I don't want this stress from this evening to effect her the next time I try to feed.

Thank you for the advice!

[Skyrivers]

Hi Guys,

So I have a one and a half month old Ball Python, she has been missing a lot of meals and when I saw her today she just looked so extremely skinny (80grams) and I just got worried and decided to feed. She didn't take again so I tried my luck with assist feeding, it was really stressful on both me and her, and she ended up spitting it out.

Now my question is, when should i try feeding her again? I don't want this stress from this evening to effect her the next time I try to feed.

Thank you for the advice!

What is your setup like?
What feeding techniques are you tried already?
What assist feeding method did you use?
Are you handling her or leaving her alone to adjust to her environment?

[Bogertophis]

Force-feeding (aka "assist feeding") just makes things worse, IMO. Wish you had asked here first...the last thing your BP needs is more stress.

So, she's 1.5 mos. old...did she have a feeding record when you got her? (I HOPE!) What was she fed? (mouse or rat? size? live or dead? if dead, frozen/thawed
or fresh killed?)

All the details matter, if we are to help you. Need to rule out some things first, & pictures would help...!

How is she housed? cage temperatures? (& how are you measuring temps? We want cool side & warm side temps) humidity? hides? pictures would help...!
Is her cage in a busy or quiet location in house. Type & size of cage. How many hides?

Where did you get her? -was she shipped to you or bought locally?

Have you handled her at all (other than trying to stuff food in her mouth).

Have you offered meals previously (before "assist") and if so, how??? do you have feeding tongs? do you have a blow-dryer (hairdryer)?

BTW, "assist feeding" did NOT "have to be done".

[RickyNY]

I don't want this stress from this evening to effect her the next time I try to feed.

And that's exactly what you accomplished.
Never assist feed, leave that to the Vet.

[Stealth]

Okay so here is some background:

Her warm side is 31 Degrees, cool side is 28 degrees. She has 2 hides, and is currently at 68% humidity with no shedding issues what so ever.

I am a breeder and have her setup in a rack on cocohusk, every single last one of my snakes has taken to food eventually (with a variety of methods tried, i have a 100% success rate until this little girl).

The reason I chose to assist feed (I was gentle), is that since her birth weight she has not increased much and she is starting to look malnourished, I have tried mice, rats, F/T, live, I handled her in the beginning as I have found that (personally) human interaction gets them used to feeding with me around (i.e the big scary human thing in the room won't hurt me so I can relax and have my noms).

I have since stopped handling, she doesn't appear stressed at all, she was bought locally with no feeding card, however she was bought from a very high-end breeder and I guess the reason I am stressing so much is that she is by far the most expensive morph I have in my collection, I know money shouldn't matter but it subconsciously adds extra stress, whether I focus on the topic or not.

I have tongs and my care is immaculate, I clean and disinfect my reptile room daily - I replace water daily and spot clean twice a day if needed.

I am confident in my abilities but yet no matter what I do this girl just won't eat and I don't want her to pass away, hence the reason I offered assistance.

She has taken food once or twice before, but the methods were different both times so I couldn't draw any conclusion from this.

[Bogertophis]

...
The reason I chose to assist feed (I was gentle), is that since her birth weight she has not increased much and she is starting to look malnourished, I have tried mice, rats, F/T, live, I handled her in the beginning as I have found that (personally) human interaction gets them used to feeding with me around (i.e the big scary human thing in the room won't hurt me so I can relax and have my noms)....

Sorry, but you're mistaken. Feeding is "Job 1". Believe me, I am a handler- I like nothing better than to physically communicate reassurance to my snakes but handling disrupts their instincts to eat...because anything that picks them up in the wild is a predator that's about to eat them. Some snakes don't mind handling, but others do & since you cannot tell by looking at them, it's hands off until they've fed easily at normal intervals at least 3 times (& maybe BPs should be more times...?).

I can relate to the fact you are anxious for her to thrive, but shoving food in her face is a set-back, not a step-forward. Leave her totally alone for at least a week*...hopefully she'll start to get in touch with her snake instincts...feed at night, in low light, minimize your motion (be prepared to freeze & hold your breath if she's interested...think ninja), & try what she's successfully taken before. *It would really be best if you wait until she is acting like she might take food...ie. in her hide, peeking out & appearing to hope to ambush her prey. If you feed from tongs, make very subtle motions (to make the prey seem alive) & never approach the snake with the prey...that's not what happens in the real world. You want the prey to appear to be passing cluelessly nearby, & right before you offer this way, do use a blow-dryer to give it some lifelike warmth.

Since you've really stressed her with "assisting", you might have better luck with live feeding, since she is more likely to feel threatened by your presence now.

While I prefer & recommend feeding pre-killed (pk) whenever possible, you really need to get this one feeding if she is truly as thin as you say. In her case, I'd have no problem offering live helpless (!) prey, leaving it in her cage at night- overnight without disruption or observing her. Either mouse fuzzy* or rat pink/fuzzy (very small crawler)*- eyes closed ONLY, is safe, they don't bite back. Snakes often feel braver if they have the 'upper hand'...if they can pounce on prey from slightly above...it helps to leave prey in a bowl-flat bottom so it cannot tip, & sides high enough that they prey cannot escape. *Choose whatever she has taken before. But as I said before, do NOT offer anything for at least a week; no matter how much you want her to eat "now", she needs to de-stress, & that was your doing, but it's a good rule anytime a snake refuses feeding...wait a week or so before offering again. This helps to get them focused as a predator.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

So I have a one and a half month old Ball Python, she has been missing a lot of meals and when I saw her today she just looked so extremely skinny (80grams)

Not sure how long you have been breeding but this whole paragraph is troubling me.

So you have a 6 weeks old animals that has been missing a lot of meals but yet is on target when it come to weight and you decided to assist feed????

First if your hatchling is 6 weeks we are talking about a grand total of 4 meals (they do not eat before their first shed which is around 10 to 14 days), trying to feed more than once a week especially with an unwilling animal is not wise and is very counter productive.

So let's say the animal ate twice that means it knows how to eat on it's own and should not feed assisted nor force fed....however you need to find the trigger (proper prey and stick to it, my recommendation live mice until the animal is consistant)

If the tub is bigger than 6 quarts downsize to 6 quarts, if it is 6 quarts add some crumble pieces of newspaper.

To give you an idea I have animals that don't start eating soon as their first shed, and I don't consider assisting before at list 6 to 8 weeks have pass and that is because they do not eat on their own.

You are jumping the gun, young animals do look skinny but at 80 grams at a month and a half and with some meals downs I don't see why you would assist.

[Stealth]

Thank you for the suggestions, I guess I may have jumped the gun.

I'm just so worried about her and figured if it was just in her mouth she'd take it down and it would end the stress on both of us. I guess it was a stupid move but all my other babies have always taken fine and this was my first picky eater.

I did a bunch of research on assist feeding properly before I decided to go for it, I was just scared that by not getting food in her soon she would pass away and that is not a chance I can risk.

I realize it was silly to put more stress on her, I guess when I saw the videos of assist feeding it just looked easier than it turned out to be.

I'm genuinely just concerned and want the best for this girl, I'll leave her for a week and keep using trial and error - here is my concern though, say she keeps refusing food and nothing I do works, what is my next step?

[Stewart_Reptiles]

If you need to make changes make them now and wait a week before offering a live hopper, during that time minimal interaction.

As for what if she does not want to eat we will cross that bridge when we get there if we get there, you need to at list give it a chance to have at least 2 to 3 attempts of trying to eat on it's on. (Consistant attempts, same prey which usually mice are more enticing)

If at that time you are still dealing with the issue post here or send me a PM, assist feed is not complicated if needed to be done but there are trick to that too to make it easier.

[Craiga 01453]

You're in good hands with Deb. She'll help you get your girl eating.