Feeding f/t?

[Traceur]

My baby ball python's food shipped today (frozen hoppers) and should be arriving the day before his feeding day (Friday). I ordered my him from xyz reptiles and they previously had him on live food, and Friday will be the first time I'm feeding him since he didn't eat last Friday. Any suggestions on how to properly feed him and switch him to f/t?
Also, I have a separate feeding tub for him so he doesn't accidentally eat his substrate by accident. So how should I quickly transport him into the tub? How do I lift him without stressing him out?
I have not handled him since he's been in his terrarium, so any advice would be great

Thank you!

[Craiga 01453]

A few things:

First, don't use a seperate feeding tub. That method is old school and proven counter productive over time.

Using a seperate feeding tub will:
A) Increase the chance of the snake refusing it's meal due to the stress of being moved
B) Increase the chance of the snake regurgitating it's meal due to being moved after eating
C) Increase your chances of being bitten moving a snake in feed mode.

Nobody puts them in a clean feeding tub in the wild, and they've survived thousands of years. If you're really worried about substrate you can lay a piece of cardboard or paper plate down (not paper towel or fabric) but your snake will probably drag the prey where it wants to eat anyway.

I've fed all my snakes in their enclosures and have never had an impaction and have never been bitten or even struck at within the enclosure.

There is literally zero benefit to moving to a feeding tub.



Also, unfortunately, I hope you didn't order many hoppers, they're too small to your BP. BPs eat hoppers for the first few meals only, typically 3-5 meals them move on to small adult mice.

[Traceur]

A few things:

First, don't use a seperate feeding tub. That method is old school and proven counter productive over time.

Using a seperate feeding tub will:
A) Increase the chance of the snake refusing it's meal due to the stress of being moved
B) Increase the chance of the snake regurgitating it's meal due to being moved after eating
C) Increase your chances of being bitten moving a snake in feed mode.

Nobody puts them in a clean feeding tub in the wild, and they've survived thousands of years. If you're really worried about substrate you can lay a piece of cardboard or paper plate down (not paper towel or fabric) but your snake will probably drag the prey where it wants to eat anyway.

I've fed all my snakes in their enclosures and have never had an impaction and have never been bitten or even struck at within the enclosure.

There is literally zero benefit to moving to a feeding tub.



Also, unfortunately, I hope you didn't order many hoppers, they're too small to your BP. BPs eat hoppers for the first few meals only, typically 3-5 meals them move on to small adult mice.

I actually did order a lot. Of course.
That is something I tried looking into. Wasn't sure how people even determined when switching to larger mice, people seemed mixed up in past threads I've read. I honestly just assumed they ate the same size for a certain amount of time and then slowly progressed into larger food. But people have fed their snakes two smaller mice to help regulate their meals, but would you recommend that?

[dakski]

A few things:

First, don't use a seperate feeding tub. That method is old school and proven counter productive over time.

Using a seperate feeding tub will:
A) Increase the chance of the snake refusing it's meal due to the stress of being moved
B) Increase the chance of the snake regurgitating it's meal due to being moved after eating
C) Increase your chances of being bitten moving a snake in feed mode.

Nobody puts them in a clean feeding tub in the wild, and they've survived thousands of years. If you're really worried about substrate you can lay a piece of cardboard or paper plate down (not paper towel or fabric) but your snake will probably drag the prey where it wants to eat anyway.

I've fed all my snakes in their enclosures and have never had an impaction and have never been bitten or even struck at within the enclosure.

There is literally zero benefit to moving to a feeding tub.



Also, unfortunately, I hope you didn't order many hoppers, they're too small to your BP. BPs eat hoppers for the first few meals only, typically 3-5 meals them move on to small adult mice.

Yes^^^^^^^^^^^^What Craig said.

DO NOT USE A FEEDING TUB! BP's are easily stressed as is. Do not add stress and increase the likelihood of refusal by using a feeding tub. For what it's worth, many snakes, who eat anything, anytime (many colubrids such as corns and boids like Boas) will eat in a feeding tub, but have fun getting a 7FT 20 pound female Boa out of one after eating! They stay in feed mode for 1-2 days! There many reasons why feeding tubs should not be used, and it varies by species. Most species it is for their benefit, but with some, it's for the keepers safety.

Here is the BP feeding chart. I recommend using it for size and days in between feedings for young BP's. Adults tend to tell you how often they want to be fed by refusing meals they don't want and often fasting in the winter. My BP, Shayna, once and adult, refused 2/3-4 meals when fed weekly. I moved to every two weeks and she eats 4/5 meals now on average. She still fasts for 5 months every winter, but since she pounds medium rats all summer, it's no worry at all.



Secondly, when offering F/T to a BP, especially one that isn't used to eating F/T, you want to mimic a life prey item as much as possible. Move it around on the tongs a little, not drastic movements. Do not scare the snake. DO NOT bump the snake with the prey item, rather, let them come to it, or bring it closer, but not too close.

DO NOT remove the snake from a hide. If it's in a hide, dangle the prey item in front and the let snake come grab it. If it doesn't eat within a couple minutes of offering, you can leave in the tank up to overnight. However, you must remove within 12 hours or else you get a rotting rodent and that's not good for anyone.

In case it was not clear, USE TONGS! You will probably want them now, but will definitely need them when he's bigger.

Also, and very important. BP's hunt at night. Offer at night, with tank lights off, and minimal room light. Just enough so you can see what you are doing. Much higher likelihood of success.

Equally important, if he refuses, wait a week to offer again. Do not over offer, that will just scare/bother him and put him off F/T.

Finally, here's a step by step instruction I wrote about defrosting F/T prey. With prey that small, it will probably defrost in warmish/room temp water within an hour, but as the instructions say, check and make sure.




This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag (1 for each). I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-.

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey for when ROE is bigger and eating Large rats, for example).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP.

[dakski]

I actually did order a lot. Of course.
That is something I tried looking into. Wasn't sure how people even determined when switching to larger mice, people seemed mixed up in past threads I've read. I honestly just assumed they ate the same size for a certain amount of time and then slowly progressed into larger food. But people have fed their snakes two smaller mice to help regulate their meals, but would you recommend that?

Some snakes will take multiple prey items in one meal. BP's, not so much.

See the chart I put in my previous post.

One appropriate sized rodent per meal is best.

Also, since you are new to this. Once he's on small mice or adult mice, be thinking hard about switching him to rats.

BP's tend to imprint on one food item and not eat anything else. Get him off mice once you have him on F/T for a little while and he has some size to him.

Additionally, yes, read other posts and learn what you can. However, do not be shy about asking questions. We are here to help.

If unsure, just ask. No stupid questions. It makes it easier for frequent contributors if you read up first and or search for a specific topic and read that and then ask for clarification. Open ended questions can be more difficult to answer. The more you know, the easier it is to ask as well.

Good luck and keep us in the loop. Again, ask when in doubt.

[Traceur]

Yes^^^^^^^^^^^^What Craig said.

DO NOT USE A FEEDING TUB! BP's are easily stressed as is. Do not add stress and increase the likelihood of refusal by using a feeding tub. For what it's worth, many snakes, who eat anything, anytime (many colubrids such as corns and boids like Boas) will eat in a feeding tub, but have fun getting a 7FT 20 pound female Boa out of one after eating! They stay in feed mode for 1-2 days! There many reasons why feeding tubs should not be used, and it varies by species. Most species it is for their benefit, but with some, it's for the keepers safety.

Here is the BP feeding chart. I recommend using it for size and days in between feedings for young BP's. Adults tend to tell you how often they want to be fed by refusing meals they don't want and often fasting in the winter. My BP, Shayna, once and adult, refused 2/3-4 meals when fed weekly. I moved to every two weeks and she eats 4/5 meals now on average. She still fasts for 5 months every winter, but since she pounds medium rats all summer, it's no worry at all.



Secondly, when offering F/T to a BP, especially one that isn't used to eating F/T, you want to mimic a life prey item as much as possible. Move it around on the tongs a little, not drastic movements. Do not scare the snake. DO NOT bump the snake with the prey item, rather, let them come to it, or bring it closer, but not too close.

DO NOT remove the snake from a hide. If it's in a hide, dangle the prey item in front and the let snake come grab it. If it doesn't eat within a couple minutes of offering, you can leave in the tank up to overnight. However, you must remove within 12 hours or else you get a rotting rodent and that's not good for anyone.

In case it was not clear, USE TONGS! You will probably want them now, but will definitely need them when he's bigger.

Also, and very important. BP's hunt at night. Offer at night, with tank lights off, and minimal room light. Just enough so you can see what you are doing. Much higher likelihood of success.

Equally important, if he refuses, wait a week to offer again. Do not over offer, that will just scare/bother him and put him off F/T.

Finally, here's a step by step instruction I wrote about defrosting F/T prey. With prey that small, it will probably defrost in warmish/room temp water within an hour, but as the instructions say, check and make sure.




This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag (1 for each). I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-.

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey for when ROE is bigger and eating Large rats, for example).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP.

Good golly, thank you! That really helps!
When should I start weighing him? I read that it's important to weigh your snakes to make sure they are at the correct weight. I've heard people say to weigh them before feedings. So when would be the best time to do that?

[Dianne]

I actually did order a lot. Of course.
That is something I tried looking into. Wasn't sure how people even determined when switching to larger mice, people seemed mixed up in past threads I've read. I honestly just assumed they ate the same size for a certain amount of time and then slowly progressed into larger food. But people have fed their snakes two smaller mice to help regulate their meals, but would you recommend that?

I have a couple of my snakes that have refused larger prey than adult mice, but will readily chow down on 2-3 mice per feeding (my 3 yr old albino ball in particular). You could start with one prey item for the first few feedings, then try offering 2 for a few feedings, then up to 3 if they will take it. I prefer a larger prey item per animal, as I feel the larger more developed bone and muscle structure is beneficial and more filling (my opinion only), but I will cater to a preference if the snakes refuses too many meals in a row. That said, I’ve only rarely had babies that wouldn’t switch to larger prey as they got older.

[Traceur]

Some snakes will take multiple prey items in one meal. BP's, not so much.

See the chart I put in my previous post.

One appropriate sized rodent per meal is best.

Also, since you are new to this. Once he's on small mice or adult mice, be thinking hard about switching him to rats.

BP's tend to imprint on one food item and not eat anything else. Get him off mice once you have him on F/T for a little while and he has some size to him.

Additionally, yes, read other posts and learn what you can. However, do not be shy about asking questions. We are here to help.

If unsure, just ask. No stupid questions. It makes it easier for frequent contributors if you read up first and or search for a specific topic and read that and then ask for clarification. Open ended questions can be more difficult to answer. The more you know, the easier it is to ask as well.

Good luck and keep us in the loop. Again, ask when in doubt.

Thanks for the advice, that really helps me understand this whole thing better with food. But what Craig said, what should I do about the extra hoppers? He probably has 3 meals left before he's ready to switch on to larger mice, so what should I do then?

[Traceur]

I have a couple of my snakes that have refused larger prey than adult mice, but will readily chow down on 2-3 mice per feeding (my 3 yr old albino ball in particular). You could start with one prey item for the first few feedings, then try offering 2 for a few feedings, then up to 3 if they will take it. I prefer a larger prey item per animal, as I feel the larger more developed bone and muscle structure is beneficial and more filling (my opinion only), but I will cater to a preference if the snakes refuses too many meals in a row. That said, I’ve only rarely had babies that wouldn’t switch to larger prey as they got older.

Amazing! I'll try possible testing that out then when he comes closer to eating larger prey What should I do if he should be eating 2, but ends up only eating 1?

[Dianne]

Amazing! I'll try possible testing that out then when he comes closer to eating larger prey What should I do if he should be eating 2, but ends up only eating 1?

My albino still does that from time to time. I leave it in the cage overnight as he has changed his mind and eaten it later. In those cases, I always thoroughly check the cage the next morning if I don’t see the mouse where I left it. One time he only moved the mouse, under the rhp...heated dead mouse after a 12 hour shift at work was NOT pleasant.