Need advice on a ball python rescue

[Kenye]

I'm new to the forum, and hoping I'm not out of place here, but I'd like to get some pointers for how to deal with a potential rescue I'm going to be getting and what to expect long-term.

I've not meet the snake yet, but I had a long conversation with the current owner. I've established he's a full-grown male, that gets absolutely no handling, is kept in a 'small terrarium', and isn't fed regularly. Owner reports he used to tolerate human handling, but has now bitten him 2 or 3 times.

The plan I'm thinking, and please correct me if I'm doing something wrong is... Get the snake into an appropriate clean enclosure with proper heating, hides, etc etc. Try to get a couple meals in him before handling him anymore than necessary. Hope that calms him down a bit, and then try to get him reacclimated to human contact.

Does anyone have any experience with similar rescues? What are people's results with snakes that have gotten defensive towards humans? Once they get bite is there no coming back etc etc.

I'd also be interested in any handling advice. I've watched several YouTube videos on dealing with defensive snakes, but they mostly dealt with babies. Is the whole covering the head and getting them to ball still viable with a full grown, or is that just gonna get me bit?

I'll add this will be my first ball python I'll have owned. I have a lot of experience handling exotics from my work as a veterinary technician and have owned several lizards throughout my life. I'd been considering getting a ball for a while, and thus have done a fair amount of research. Then this opportunity fell in my lap, and it'll help get a snake out of a bad situation, I feel like I can't say no. Thanks for any and all help!

[redshepherd]

I'm betting 95% that the defensiveness will go away once he is provided a nice, secure enclosure with proper husbandry for a few weeks. And fed a few meals LOL.

Especially since he's a ball python and they are basically naturally docile when they are comfortable. Snakes often become defensive when stressed from poor husbandry.

For taming down defensive snakes in other cases though, you will have to plan on getting bitten a few times. From what I've read, the key is just short and sweet handling sessions, and do not immediately put the snake back after it has bitten you. Otherwise they learn that bite = they get to escape.

Definitely follow everything in this caresheet to a T and you'll be good! https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...s%29-Caresheet
I'd also go with a tub setup this being your first ball python... The snake will have a much easier time and so will you: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...e-Basics-*DUW*

[Kenye]

Thanks for the advice! I plan on following the care sheet, and it lines up with everything else I've read. I was also leaning towards a tub, just as a cost saver, but it seems a lot of people actually prefer them.

One additional question on feeding. I know feeding every 7-10 days is a normal routine for balls. Since I'm getting a potentially malnourished guy would it be advisable to try and feed him a little more frequently to start? Like maybe trying twice a week for the first week or so? Or is that not a smart decision?

[redshepherd]

Thanks for the advice! I plan on following the care sheet, and it lines up with everything else I've read. I was also leaning towards a tub, just as a cost saver, but it seems a lot of people actually prefer them.

One additional question on feeding. I know feeding every 7-10 days is a normal routine for balls. Since I'm getting a potentially malnourished guy would it be advisable to try and feed him a little more frequently to start? Like maybe trying twice a week for the first week or so? Or is that not a smart decision?

No, just feed him on what would be a normal schedule with appropriately sized prey. You want to ease him into a normal feeding schedule, not stuff him all at once. (He probably won't take it twice a week anyway)

[Bogertophis]

...One additional question on feeding. I know feeding every 7-10 days is a normal routine for balls. Since I'm getting a potentially malnourished guy would it be advisable to try and feed him a little more frequently to start? Like maybe trying twice a week for the first week or so? Or is that not a smart decision?

Feeding once a week should be fine...too soon will only get you a regurge, esp. in a nervous newly-rehomed snake. He needs time to digest, & since he's probably
malnourished, feeding prey that is somewhat smaller than his normal fare would be a good idea. In other words, don't rush things. Likewise, if he should refuse
to eat, don't offer too often (less than weekly) as that only further stresses them.

Even in a healthy & well-fed snake, for best results you want to let the snake settle in with NO handling until they've fed easily at least 3 times. I am betting that
with good care & calm respectful handling that you'll have little trouble with him biting. Trust what you see...snakes that are stressed generally look that way.

[Zincubus]

I've sent you a detailed explanation of the "hairdryer method of feeding" ... give it a try as it normally gets them feeding which in turn gives you both lots of confidence!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Cheesenugget]

My first bearded dragon was a rescue too. And although I loved her, I regretted that decision. I did not have the experience to tell if the lizard was sick regardless of the number of articles I read on how to tell what health looks like. The rescue I adopted her from was actually from a local herp society and the foster mom who works as the lead herp keeper at a local zoo for over 15 years could not tell she was sick prior to her surrender. Long story short, I was financially and emotionally spent, and she was humanely put to sleep to end her suffering. She had long term egg binding where the eggs were rotting inside of her and she had yellow fungus, already spread to her liver and other organs. But you could not tell by her appetite, lack of lesions (Signs of a fungal infection) or other signs of illness. It was by coincidence that we found these problems during a vet check up.

Adopting a reptile is NOT the same as adopting a dog, cat or even a hamster. Mammals, even prey ones like bunnies, hide their symptoms well but with an experienced eye, you can tell something is off. Most mammalian pets show the first sign of illness by not eating, which is the opposite of reptiles. They can be sick and have good appetites. Best part of it is their ability to bounce back quicker than a reptile.

With that said, I highly recommend you not to adopt a ball python. Easier snakes like corn or kings would be a better candidate for adoption because they are so hardy and easy to feed. Ball pythons are not beginners snakes. Their husbandry requirement requires the correct equipment and diligence on knowing what your temps/humidity are and keeping them on point which is not easy to do if you live in an arid or too cold of an environment. Stress, inaccurate husbandry or other unknown reasons just because it is now an adult, can trigger a feeding strike that can last for months. Feeding strikes are extremely stressful for new bp owners, and it is no joke it is probably one of the most if not #1 complaint about these snakes.

I do think you have a good heart and you are trying to do the right thing. But by taking an animal who may have suffered months of neglect and even comes with mites and scale rot (Common with rescues), you may not be ready for and no number of threads and books will help you better than knowing what to look for yourself, how to treat it yourself prior to using the vet. Most exotic vets don't have enough snake experience and may do more harm than good, ie force feeding. Your lack of experience will put you at a disadvantage on what would be better treatment for your snake vs most vets who believe being aggressive with treatment is the way to go. Signs of illness are small and subtle and often overlooked, some can be minor and no need to address or it needs medication, ie a snake regurgitate its meal can mean you need to check its hot side temp to parasites.

Or you may get lucky and end up with a health bp. That is rare but it happens. You are gambling your time, money and emotional investment with this pet that comes with an unknown history (Most won't disclose everything in hopes of getting rid of it), with a possible chance of rehoming it again if it does not work out for you. This forum is useful but its purpose is served to give you tips and suggestions and not a replacement for medical advice.

If you want to do a good thing and get a bp, you can contact breeders for normals. These are usually passed off wholesale to chain stores where they receive less care, become ill or sold as feed. Although they are wanted as pets, morphs have been become so much more affordable now that most people would rather pick up a banana for less than $200 (Like me) than a norm for $25-45. At least you will start with a baby that is easier to work with and you have a better idea of where it came from. Your first time experience with such wonderful species should be a positive one. When you take on an adult rescue, it is a wild card of what you will get.

If you are able to read all this through, sorry for my rambling. If you still want that rescue, then please make sure you read the stickies completely through. I would start him in a tub to maintain humidity. Use papertowels. No substrate for the quarantine period. Stuff open space with newspaper or paper towel to make it feel crowded, add identical hides (I recommend 2 plastic large dog bowls with holes drilled in), and large water bowl for soaking if it wants to. Have PAM handy or other mite killing spray handy PRIOR to picking up the snake. Feed it what it ate before for 2 weeks. Weigh him at the start and check the feeding chart on what you are supposed to feed him. No handling until after it starts eating 2-3 meals, and short handling sessions only, no more than twice a week. Most snakes don't bite to be mean or vengeful, most bites are out of fear or they think your hand is food or think you have food. But like all animals with teeth, biting is a risk you must accept if you want to tame your pet.

Good luck!

[Bogertophis]

I'm new to the forum, and hoping I'm not out of place here, but I'd like to get some pointers for how to deal with a potential rescue I'm going to be getting and what to expect long-term.

I've not meet the snake yet, but I had a long conversation with the current owner. I've established he's a full-grown male, that gets absolutely no handling, is kept in a 'small terrarium', and isn't fed regularly. Owner reports he used to tolerate human handling, but has now bitten him 2 or 3 times.

The plan I'm thinking, and please correct me if I'm doing something wrong is... Get the snake into an appropriate clean enclosure with proper heating, hides, etc etc. Try to get a couple meals in him before handling him anymore than necessary. Hope that calms him down a bit, and then try to get him reacclimated to human contact.

Does anyone have any experience with similar rescues? What are people's results with snakes that have gotten defensive towards humans? Once they get bite is there no coming back etc etc.

I'd also be interested in any handling advice. I've watched several YouTube videos on dealing with defensive snakes, but they mostly dealt with babies. Is the whole covering the head and getting them to ball still viable with a full grown, or is that just gonna get me bit?

I'll add this will be my first ball python I'll have owned. I have a lot of experience handling exotics from my work as a veterinary technician and have owned several lizards throughout my life. I'd been considering getting a ball for a while, and thus have done a fair amount of research. Then this opportunity fell in my lap, and it'll help get a snake out of a bad situation, I feel like I can't say no. Thanks for any and all help!

Welcome to this forum, & no, you're NOT out of place.

I think cheesenugget offered some wonderful input, but may have missed that you work as a vet tech & have other herp experience: I think you'll do fine taking on
this BP, though I do agree (& for the same reasons) that BPs are NOT the good "beginner" snakes as they are often touted to be.

I've kept many snakes of many kinds for literally decades, and some of them were rescues, unwanted for various reasons & a good percentage were "defensive".
I have a feeling this snake will be a good experience for you both: I've found that snakes are pretty good "judges of character", that is they act up for good reasons.
Some ppl just have a lack of empathy & snakes pick up on that and act accordingly out of fear. Then their health suffers (from the stress) too, and sooner or later,
the owner gives up. Not everyone "reads snakes" well, but given your occupational interests, I expect you'll do better than fine.

A quick history of one snake I had for many years: a yearling boa (BCI) had changed hands many times, she was afraid, defensive & bit everyone, except those were
not the words they used. On a "good" day such snakes get labeled as "aggressive, evil, & scary". And yes, when I got her, she wanted a piece of me too, hissing &
striking out. I would cover her with a small towel & hold her on my lap for a while (30-60 minutes) while I watched tv or read. She couldn't see me but she learned my
scent & touch thru the towel, that I was warm, & eventually (in about 5 weeks) took the hint that I was safe to be around. Gradually I let her peek out, & while she was
afraid at first (body language is obvious ), I continued to touch her under the towel, not approaching her face. No later than the end of the first 2 months with me she
allowed me to pick her up & gently handle her without any towel, and I never got even ONE bite...not in all the years she became my cherished pet. Also "face tame" in
time...yes, I have seen some snakes that show their fear of faces & then you risk a sudden bite to the face, so -not to be controversial here- but I personally work with
my snakes so they allow all sorts of face handling with me, so they are no longer concerned that I'm some huge predator about to eat them. Consequently, they not
only don't lash out at me but never at the vet's either & never when I did programs or, these days, "meet & greets" with people of all ages & levels of experience.

So thanks (on behalf of this BP) for being willing to risk life & limb to take on this "terrifying monster"- I believe you'll find he is NOT the incorrigible beast you've
been led to believe & we're all here to help ya!

[Kenye]

I appreciate your detailed response Cheesenugget, although in my situation I think I disagree with you. Yes I lack the ownership experience, but I think my work experience and other animal experience kind of makes up for it. Also I'm diligent in doing my research and making sure everything is done right. My main area of knowledge, and I wouldn't call it expertise, is with birds, and they're basically warm-blooded reptiles with feathers! The whole hiding their illnesses etc etc. At one point in my house I had 5 foster dogs, 4 foster parrots, and various other critters that were being abandoned. I think it's in my soul to help out anything I possibly can. I never kept any longer than I had to, with that many running around I couldn't give them the proper attention they all deserved, but I was a better option than what they had. I'm down now to my 2 small dogs and my Eclectus (parrot) now, so I have the time/energy for this guy. I just want to give him the best chance at recovering and being happy that I can. If he ends up being sick or needing treatment, I have the connections to get highly discounted vet services, probably at cost of whatever he'd need.

I went ahead and picked him up this morning and got him settled in here. Things aren't nearly as bad as I was afraid they'd be. When I was setting his enclosure up he showed no signs of aggression or stress to being handled, and actually chilled on my shoulders while I worked. He is basically skin and bones though, I wish I'd weighed him while I had him out, but I didn't want to do anymore than I had to. I called my reptile buddy to come over and take a look while I was getting him set up. As per his advice he's been being fed food that was way too small for him not often enough. He came with a half empty pack of frozen medium mice from Petco. He recommended jumping to 'large mice' and feeding a pack of those, and then jumping to small rats after that. Since he didn't seem stressed about the move I went ahead an thawed one of the mice he came with and offered it to him. He took it immediately and downed it quickly.

The only thing that's worried me so far, is his lack of 'constrictor-ness', which could be normal for a malnourished animal? When he was hanging out on my shoulders he didn't really grip on much, and when he grabbed the mouse he didn't constrict it at all. He just grabbed and began the munching process. Maybe he'll get more lively with a regular feeding schedule.

Sorry I didn't get pictures, after he's had more time to settle and digest I'll see what I can do! Hopefully get a weight too!

[Bogertophis]

Hopefully his poor muscle tone is just from being chronically under-fed, & also kept in a cage too small to move around much, plus with no handling...?

When always fed pre-killed prey, many constrictors learn that they can just safely eat them, so it's no big surprise that he didn't waste any effort to constrict.
This is why, when snakes change owners, it's so important to know what they're used to eating...snakes that aren't used to making their own kills get hurt when
the prey fights back unexpectedly. And both for safety & humane treatment, you'll find most of us here do feed only dead prey, or at least whenever possible*.
(*When I used to relocate some wild snakes, obviously they cannot get used to "room service" & then go back to making their own kills safely. But otherwise...)

It's great that he already fed for you. I'm sure you'll be checking his stool for parasites too...hopefully he's not "sharing" his food. And yes, you are
PERFECTLY placed should the need arise for more medical help, but for many snakes, patient "TLC" is what they need most, with proper cage conditions.