Do you think there's a market for a high end rack?

[Ernie Mccracken]

For as long as I've been keeping reptiles, I've wanted to design my own rack. ALL of the existing racks are designed only to be used in heated rooms (which is expensive, uncomfortable to work in, only makes sense if you keep 25+ animals, and not everyone even has a spare room to dedicate), use heat tape which I hate, and the tubs always seem like a compromise.

Features:
- Insulated on 3 sides, designed specifically to easily achieve a 80-90 degree gradiant in a room temp area
- True radiant heat built in, no junk heat tape that does nothing for ambient and eventually turns into a mess of tangled ribbon and shoddy wiring connections
- ZERO tape needed, probes could be recessed and placed inside the tub for better accuracy
- True durable polycarbonate tubs (or at least windowed tubs) with near 100% visibility so you can visually check a whole rack at a glance, no bargain store stuff
- Potentially semi-automated humidity control (still unsure if my idea will work as needed)

The catch - a 5 high medium rack would probably retail for at least $700 to make any kind of respectable margin. I really just want to build something like this for myself, but am curious if I'm the only one. Maybe I'm just dreaming, but I've been rack shopping and am tired of the same old stuff that's been around for 20 years now without any real improvement.

[Ax01]

u mean high-end PVC racks? i don't think your plans would be competing w/ ARS And Freedom Breeders. anyway i'm sure u can get sales. i'm sure u can find a niche esp. if u market it correctly, like how your $700 rack can save someone money and costs less over time if it;s not dependent on heated rooms (or reasonably room temp warm and comfy).

my question is how many thermostats would be needed to regulate your rack? 5 for the 5 built in radiant heat panels?

[Hamsnacks]

I believe in the right market it would definitely work!

In my province of Alberta it would not, the market for snakes is just not big enough but in other states in the US I think real snake enthusiasts would definitely buy your stuff!

Sounds real good, best of luck with whatever route you go with!

[Ernie Mccracken]

u mean high-end PVC racks? i don't think your plans would be competing w/ ARS And Freedom Breeders. anyway i'm sure u can get sales. i'm sure u can find a niche esp. if u market it correctly, like how your $700 rack can save someone money and costs less over time if it;s not dependent on heated rooms (or reasonably room temp warm and comfy).

my question is how many thermostats would be needed to regulate your rack? 5 for the 5 built in radiant heat panels?

Yeah not competing with metal racks which are for housing the maximum number of animals inside a heated area. I think both of those products are very good, but really not for the hobbyist.

[Ernie Mccracken]

u mean high-end PVC racks? i don't think your plans would be competing w/ ARS And Freedom Breeders. anyway i'm sure u can get sales. i'm sure u can find a niche esp. if u market it correctly, like how your $700 rack can save someone money and costs less over time if it;s not dependent on heated rooms (or reasonably room temp warm and comfy).

my question is how many thermostats would be needed to regulate your rack? 5 for the 5 built in radiant heat panels?

Either way. I would route channels in every shelf to allow for flexibility so you could keep different temps if you wanted.

[Aedryan Methyus]

By all means I think there would be a huge market for something like this! I'm surprised no one else has done it yet (that I know of)... Wanna take it even a step further? Also, incorporate a built in fogging or misting system or some other means of controlling the humidity in every rack! I've been thinking about trying to do something like that myself!

[SDA]

I tell you what is needed is a modular environment control and data collection geared toward reptiles. This exists in the aquatic hobby and especially in the saltwater hobby but there needs to be better options for temperature control, monitoring, humidity control, and lighting that can be accessed via smart devices and can better adjust and control husbandry.

Right now the only thing even close is cobbling weather monitoring devices for reading ranges but there is no network enabled thermostats or other ancillary devices like misting and UV lighting. If you could create standards and tie in existing devices like herpstat and mistking then you could have better piece of mind keeping tabs on your animals from anywhere

[cchardwick]

This is a great thread, I think there are so many good ideas to improve existing designs. I have ARS racks and have actually cut and welded transition levels myself out of steel followed by painting it to match. It came out really nice, but one thing I realized is that there isn't much mark up on an ARS rack when you take into consideration all of the components, which is hard to believe since they sell for about $3,000 per rack.

There are a couple things I'd like to see, how about a rack system that you can buy one tub at a time and stack it together like Tetris. People would just buy it little by little instead of having to throw out thousands of dollars to buy a whole rack. I know you can do levels but it would be nice to have a way to buy just one tub at a time.

How about a fully enclosed rodent system similar to an ARS rack that has four sides, a clear front, and fans with carbon filtration to keep the smell to zero! I actually threw a tarp over my rack once and put a big carbon air filter on one end, the smell went to zero even though it was cleaning day and there was considerable smell. You could even sell aftermarket parts that add on to an ARS rack to convert it.

The problem with most of these ideas is that they cost more money than people want to spend. Just look at all the racks people are buying, not many people talk about ARS or Freedom Breeder because they want the most rack for the money, meaning they buy cheaper racks. I think no matter what you build there will be a niche market for it. I've actually considered building racks similar to ARS but if you look at the ARS operation on the web you can see just what really goes into it. You need a large warehouse and a large team of people, lots of storage space, a way to ship them by truck. And large racks can easily get damaged in transport, etc... You're better off buying racks and breeding snakes LOL.

[Ernie Mccracken]

By all means I think there would be a huge market for something like this! I'm surprised no one else has done it yet (that I know of)... Wanna take it even a step further? Also, incorporate a built in fogging or misting system or some other means of controlling the humidity in every rack! I've been thinking about trying to do something like that myself!

Yeah I think that would be a next step. Misting system would probably be the easiest to incorporate, but I'm not sure that's the right answer since even the finest heads will completely soak a tub in seconds. Also, lab grade probes are expensive and are not real time like temp probes. There is a lag, so it would take some experimenting to get the logic right.

But how nice would that be something like sensitive arboreals? Program your desired temp and humidity and away you go. No more guessing or wildly fluctuating moisture levels like you get with the spray bottle.

I tell you what is needed is a modular environment control and data collection geared toward reptiles. This exists in the aquatic hobby and especially in the saltwater hobby but there needs to be better options for temperature control, monitoring, humidity control, and lighting that can be accessed via smart devices and can better adjust and control husbandry.

Totally agree. I bought my first aquacontroller way back in 2008 and wouldn't run a display tank without one. Even my relatively simple planted aquarium had temp control, auto CO2 injection (based on a PH controller), auto liquid fertilizer injection, lighting controller, feeding, water changes, and topoff. Seems like rocket science compared to heat tape and a basic thermostat.

This is a great thread, I think there are so many good ideas to improve existing designs. I have ARS racks and have actually cut and welded transition levels myself out of steel followed by painting it to match. It came out really nice, but one thing I realized is that there isn't much mark up on an ARS rack when you take into consideration all of the components, which is hard to believe since they sell for about $3,000 per rack.

Yeah I have no desire to fabricate an FB/ARS clone. I've done the math, too. Even looked into "cheap" chinese extruded aluminum. Building anything out of metal is exorbitantly expensive. Then it's another $500 to ship the thing. It's hard to sell to hobbyists and the commercial breeder market is so small. If I were to build something out of metal, I'd choose something like the restaurant industry where a product with that much labor commands a $10k+ price!

There are a couple things I'd like to see, how about a rack system that you can buy one tub at a time and stack it together like Tetris. People would just buy it little by little instead of having to throw out thousands of dollars to buy a whole rack. I know you can do levels but it would be nice to have a way to buy just one tub at a time.

Yes, scale-ability is imperative. It has to be shipped UPS/Fedex and grow incrementally because that's how hobbyists grow their collections. Even as a long time hobbyist, there have been periods of years where it didn't make sense to keep a heated room with big metal racks. I think 4-5 tubs is the sweet spot. Single tubs would be doable (and maybe I'll build a prototype that way), but would be much more expensive on a per tub basis. Cost is already wildly out of control on this project!

How about a fully enclosed rodent system similar to an ARS rack that has four sides, a clear front, and fans with carbon filtration to keep the smell to zero! I actually threw a tarp over my rack once and put a big carbon air filter on one end, the smell went to zero even though it was cleaning day and there was considerable smell. You could even sell aftermarket parts that add on to an ARS rack to convert it.

Ha if I EVER breed live rodents again it'll have to be something like that. It exists in lab settings, although this looks REALLY expensive!

The problem with most of these ideas is that they cost more money than people want to spend.

Yeah the reptile crowd aren't big spenders, at least not on equipment. No one is going to get rich building better racks, but it blows my mind to see people risk $10k worth of animals they've spent years caring for on some old heat tape, $4 sterilite tubs, and a cheap made in china thermostat. Maybe there is something in between or maybe there are just enough interested people to make it a worthwhile endeavor. Just thinking out loud.

[ElliotNess]

Ha if I EVER breed live rodents again it'll have to be something like that. It exists in lab settings, although this looks REALLY expensive!

A buddy of mine has a ton of these and he sells them for about a grand. His shop has 0 smell...