Heating Difficulties

[AmericanTacos]

So I'm getting my first BP next week, and I wanted to set up my tank so it could be running for when she got here. I have ALMOST everything set up, but I'm having some heating problems...
In my setup I still have to:
- Cover the 2 glass sides with black paper
- Buy/insert fake plants
This thread is really only about heating, not stuff I don't yet have.


This is my tank. Some information:
- It's 30 gallons (Exo Terra Large Wide).
- I'm using about 1 and 1/2 inches of Coconut Fiber substrate.
- It's raised off the glass with "feet" on each corners, so the UTH doesn't touch/damage the table.
- The UTH is on the righthand side in the picture ~ this should be my warm side.
- The CHE is over the center (a bit to the left) to create a gradient and prevent temp buildup on the warm side.
- The water bowl is also in the center, but to the front so it isn't under the lamp (so the water is still cool). I put it in the center to help with humidity.
- The CHE and UTH are both hooked up to JumpStart thermostats. The CHE/background lamp are on a 12 hour day/12 hour night timer, so the ambient temp drops to around 76 at night.
- The CHE is raised as high as the bar will allow.
- The CHE is set to 80F.
- The UTH is set to 92F.

The temperature measurements (from temp gun):
- Under the CHE, it's 90F.
- Inside the "cool" hide, it's 83F.
- AROUND the CHE, the ground is 80F.
- The water is 70F.
- Inside the "warm" hide, it's 91F.
- Between the "warm" hide and the front of the tank, it's 74F.
- Between the "warm" hide and the CHE, it's 82F.
- The surface of the "warm" hide is 78F.
- The surface of the "cool" hide is 86F. It's only warm to the touch, not enough to burn.

While the UTH is set to 90F, I set it up over a day ago and it's climbing very, very slowly. Regardless, it doesn't seem right that it's 90F under the CHE when the thermostat is set to 80F, AND the UTH area is only around 74F...
It's less of a gradient and more of concentrated areas of hot and cold. With the hot areas being inside the hides and under the CHE, and the cold being everywhere else! I put my hand on the ground, even touched the glass below the substrate, and the UTH is hardly warm.

The measurements seem a bit weird don't they? If so, how can I fix it?

Thanks in advance, and sorry this is such a long post!

[MD_Pythons]

You need to get rid of that stick on thermometer, your UTH isn't going to do much for your ambient temps. Are you measuring it at the glass?

And your thermostat probe isn't under the substrate is it? You should follow that pic.

[AmericanTacos]

You need to get rid of that stick on thermometer, your UTH isn't going to do much for your ambient temps. Are you measuring it at the glass?

And your thermostat probe isn't under the substrate is it? You should follow that pic.

I know the UTH won't do anything for ambient air temps, that's what the CHE is for. The problem is that the UTH doesn't seem to be heating the floor at all. I'm not measuring the glass, I'm measuring the substrate and the air temps. The problem is mostly heat buildup - certain places are being heated TOO much, and the other places aren't heated enough. The heat isn't dispersing at all.
I followed that diagram when I was setting my tank up, but the thermostat probe isn't really the problem. The temp gun is my main source of measurement.

[Virago]

MD_Pythons diagram is pretty spot on. I also put insulation boards around the sides an under my tub because my room is very cold.

[AmericanTacos]

Yes... As I said... I used that diagram to set up my tank. The setup isn't the problem - the thermostat probe can measure whatever it wants and it doesn't matter because I mainly use the temp gun.

The problem i'm asking about it HEAT BUILD UP.

Heat is building under the CHE, and not dispersing. So it's 90F under the CHE and in the hides. And 75-80F everywhere else.

[SDA]

Sounds like you might have confusion about how radiant heating works and how it indirectly controls ambient temperature.

Radiant heat panels, ceramic heat emitters, and even light bulbs all work the same way. They radiate outward in a mostly straight direction and only heat what they come into contact with. That heated area then radiates back up and indirectly causes air in a confined space to warm up as you slowly get a heat exchange in the inside air as it circulates (hot air rises).

The heat build up you are seeing is probably normal and you are over thinking this.

Heat will not disperse from a radiant heat source, that is only accomplished through active means such as convection heat (the pushing of air via external means over a radiant heat source). If you are concerned with the floor temperature under the CHE you have two options, lower the wattage going into the CHE to lower the heat output or remove dark objects under the CHE until the area cools. Be warned however you may negatively impact the ambient temp you have.

The drawback is that since you are using the CHE to indirectly impact ambient temps, you need to have it heat an area a certain temp to then radiate heat back up and impact the air surrounding that area.

Ignore the tank walls, those are irrelevant. The only areas you should concern yourself with is the inside floor temp under the hot hide where the UTH is (never measure the substrate above the UTH, always measure the inside floor temp), the ambient temp between the hot and cold hide (you need a temp probe to do this, IR temp guns won't do jack to measure ambient temps, they don't work that way) and the substrate temp surrounding or inside the cool hide.

No other part of the tank matters as far as taking temps is concerned.

Your CHE should be some placed between the hot and cold hide. Wherever it can heat indirectly the ambient temps the best. The hot spot under the CHE is also mostly irrelevant so long as it does not reach a temp that can cause skin and scale issues. 90 degrees under the CHE is pretty good and not sure what you are worrying about.

In short, you are way overthinking things. I think you are fine so long as your cool hide is at least 10 degrees cooler than the warm hide as a guideline and never below 75 degrees for an extended period of time (as in days or weeks).

[PitOnTheProwl]

Inch and a half of substrate is one problem.
Temping the surface of the substrate is a second problem.
Feeling with your warm blooded hand is also yet another problem.
Setting up heat for these animals is not that hard, I still cant fathom why everyone overcomplicates it.

You NEED to monitor the tempurature of the hottest surface your animal can touch, this would be when they burrow OR under the surface of the substrate.

[MD_Pythons]

I know the UTH won't do anything for ambient air temps, that's what the CHE is for. The problem is that the UTH doesn't seem to be heating the floor at all. I'm not measuring the glass, I'm measuring the substrate and the air temps. The problem is mostly heat buildup - certain places are being heated TOO much, and the other places aren't heated enough. The heat isn't dispersing at all.
I followed that diagram when I was setting my tank up, but the thermostat probe isn't really the problem. The temp gun is my main source of measurement.

You need to take your UTH temps at the glass, if it's 88-90 at the substrate it might be hot enough to burn your bp at the glass. They can and they will get under the substrate, you really don't need half an inch of substrate in there.

[Reposado]

Glass is a serious PITA to get work for BPs, but if you want to stick with it and not invest a better PVC enclosure or a rack, here's my advice.

1. Less substrate. Put down paper or paper towels on the bottom and cover with just a thin single layer of substrate. No more than 1/2-3/4" deep.
2. Cover 3 sides with something insulating, like black foam core board or actual insulation foam sheets from a hardware store.
3. Cover the screen top with foil. Put your light fixture right on the metal screen on one side of the tank with a 100-watt CHE in it (NO LIGHT) and cut the foil so it just fits in the hole.

Tape the thermostat probe between the glass and the heat pad underneath. Set the stat to 90-95 degrees. Use a heat gun to make sure the paper over the glass doesn't get above 92 after the stat shuts off the heat. Adjust the stat temp accordingly.

Put the CHE on another stat. Install that probe inside the tank about 2/3rd the way down on the hot side. Make sure the probe isn't touching the glass. You can use a little suction cup thingy to stick it to the side. Tape the wire down so the snake can't get behind it or pull it down. Set this stat to 85-88 degrees.

Put an accurite digital temp/humidity meter on the cold side of your tank, not touching the glass. Adjust your CHE stat temps to keep your cold side 78-80 degrees.

[MD_Pythons]

Tape the wire down so the snake can't get behind it or pull it down. Set this stat to 85-88 degrees.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the tape part, snakes can easily get behind and get stuck to it. Not worth the risk, nothing sticky should be in the enclosure.