Switching from live mice to F/T rats - Took once then refused twice, what now?

[Sw0rn2Domin8]

Hello, I have received a relatively new Ball Python, she was about one month old, and we started feeding her live mice pups. For the first month in a half she ended up eating very well with small mice, and I wanted to switch to pre-killed rats. The first time she ever ate one was when she was hungry, there were not mice at the stores, and we had a pinky frozen rat we decided to try. Amazingly, after thawing and blow-drying, she struck and ate it after we made it dance for a bit.


About a week later, we went to a Reptile Expo and bought some small pre-killed rat pups, on the same day we put the rat in a plastic bag and put the rat in warm water for about an hour until it was warm to the middle. After that I blow dried it until it was warm and dry. We tried to feed her a rat, we did the zombie dance, she struck the rat and held it for a bit, but she was at a bad angle and was trying to eat the rat from the middle and not the head. She gave up eventually and dropped it.


A minute later she tried to eat the rat again, without striking first. She still had a hard time getting the head to her mouth. My mom tried the nudge the rats head to my snake’s head so it would be a little easier for her to eat it. We left her with her food for 15+ minutes until we came back and took the rat out and put it in the same plastic bag and put it in the freezer.


We waited 3 days to feed her again, she was very busy in her tank and kept trying to get out, so we couldn’t do the zombie dance. So we left the rat on the opposite side of the tub, and although she seemed very interested and sniffed it a lot, she didn’t strike or attempt to eat. We waited 30 minutes and when we came back she wasn’t eating it she was slithering on it like it was her best friend. Then we decided she wasn’t going eat in, so then we threw it away.


So I want to know, what ways can I teach my snake to eat pre-killed frozen rats based on what she has eaten so far? I am concerned that she isn’t eating, but at the same time I am afraid that since she started taking rats, if I go back to mice now, she won’t go back to rats. Should we get a mouse or try again after rolling a F/R rat in mouse bedding?

Also, and tips on doing the zombie dance without my snake leaving her bin?


Thank you for any help!

[cchardwick]

Frozen thawed is a bit tricky. I usually use pre killed rats for my big reticulated pythons and this week I tried frozen thawed for the first time. At one point I had too many adult rats and put some in the freezer, so now I can use them. I thawed out a couple at 90F in the incubator, they were both nice and warm (90F). I dropped them in the tubs and my snakes didn't even hardly notice them at first, they finally sniffed them out (slowly) and finally both ate them. But usually they grab them and go crazy. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the temperature of the rodent. Apparently the body temp of a live rodent is 99F. So even being 10 degrees off it made a huge difference. If you are heating with a blow dryer it could actually get the rodent too hot, if the snake coils around something that's too hot and overheats the snake for a few seconds I'm guessing it may make the snake go off of food. I'd get an IR temp gun and make sure it's close to 100F before feeding, at least within a couple degrees. You may want to set up an incubator at that temp and put them in there at the end of the thawing process.

Personally I'd go back to mice and go back and forth for a bit. All of my snakes will take either mice or rats. When feeding fresh kill some prefer mice, but feeding live they all will go for either one.

[KillerKame]

Based on my, admittedly limited, experience it is best not to jostle the prey around too much even if they drop it. Both my BP's have transitioned to F/T but there was some awkwardness with the first. Where my female is a deadshot and takes the head every time even if I present it weird, Fluffy is clumsy.

Evidence, and yes he did eat it without intervention:



I have found that if I shuffle the rat around and reposition or reoffer it after he has had a derp he is a bunch slower to revisit it and start eating it. Early on I reoffered him one that he'd dropped because a goofy grip and it took over 30 mins of him patrolling his cage before he came back to it.

When Fluff is hungry he is at the top of the tank waiting, and I have worried in the past that he'll come out, in that case I just present him the nose of the rodent with out any extra ado and he'll usually be on it in a second. If they go to the trouble of wrapping and striking they will in all eat in all likelihood even if they let go to make an adjustment. I suspect that the extra intervention is probably what put your girl off her feed.

Going forward, thaw the rat in the room she's in. Offer her the rat on the tongs but don't do a ton of jiggling just put it close to her face(don't assault her with it) or in front of the opening of her hide if she is in it. Be patient. If she wraps and strikes let her be even if she lets it go. You can place her back in her tub once she's wrapped if she has come flying out. If you really think size is an issue, try a rat fuzzy or crawler, but my 114 gram female takes rat pups with out issue.

Most of my early feeding issues were caused by my own worry and hovering. I wouldn't worry about scenting or going back to mice at this point. Give her some time, offer again, keep it simple.

[Zincubus]

Hi !

Fear not !!

It looks as though its interested in eating and that is the important part , I feel .

This method WORKS if done properly ...
I wait until evening as they're nocturnal of course . I let the rodent thaw out in the reptile room so they get the smell ..
Then I warm up the mouse / rat with a hairdryer and offer with tongs IMMEDIATELY whilst still warm . If refused simply repeat the heating and offering as many times as needed. .
A couple of mine will only strike feed from within their hides so I dangle the warm rodent in front of the hide's entrance - usually works but if it fails simply reheat the rodent with a hairdryer and immediately offer again whilst it's still warm continue until it's grabbed ...


Incidentally , if it shows no interest at all not even a tongue flicker maybe it's best to leave for a week or so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Newbie39]

+1 for re-heating if there is a refusal. Pandora refuses mostly due to temp of prey. I use the heat gun and make sure the rat is at 99-100. Use tongs and pick up at side of body and offer the head. She slams it back every time.