Show in 6 days for first BP - what are my priorities?

[The Night King]

Ok so Repticon Atlanta is in 6 days! First time attending for me. I'm a snake lover and my six-year-old daughter has luckily gravitated towards that love also and after some gentle persuasion we have convinced her mama a.k.a. my wife to let us get a ball python. So after lots of research and careful planning we have our habitat set up with temperature and humidity right where it needs to be and still have somewhat of a plan in place for after we get the new family member home but for the show itself I'm panicking LOL!

I can't really decide how to prioritize the snake because there are several different variables at play:


Budget: $300-$350

Morph: my daughter loves the white pythons… BEL, Super Fire, Ivory. I like them too but I also love the pied. My wife loves whatever one we get that is least likely to bite my daughter lol.

Feeding: It will absolutely have to take F/T. That just is what it is. I actually had a braz rainbow boa when I first met my wife 13 years ago and she could not get over the live feedings so that was part of the agreement was that I knew I could go the F/T route with the new one. The problem is a lot of the bigger breeders feed live so I'm a little nervous about trying to buy something that is feeding live and trying to convert it to frozen. Am I better off asking the person at the show what it's feeding on and simply staying away from anything that is feeding live?

Handling: This is a tough one. We definitely want a snake we can interact with and learn to hold and respect and learn and body language etc. but I absolutely also know that a lot depends on the snakes personality. I have had both types of personality… A beautiful Colombian Redtail boa that was puppy dog friendly and the greatest thing on earth then I've also had an albino Burmese python and my rainbow boa we're both very very defensive and difficult to handle. That's part of the reason we like the ball python because generally it's more docile but I also know that there are some that are just nippy and more defensive. That's the main reason I have not bought online because I want to be able to handle it and just see if something feels really calm and comfortable not that I will know because I'm not super familiar with the balls and haven't had a snake and 12 to 13 years.


So I thought I knew what we wanted… A beautiful, tame, BEL for $350 or less feeding on frozen then I started thinking maybe that's a pipe dream and what am I going to do if I can't find that snake at the show! I know the best deals are probably on the second day of the show but for fear of not finding the perfect snake for us I'll probably buy the VIP ticket and be first in line LOL

I have seen several beautiful white snakes online that are feeding on frozen and many in my price range but without handling the snake ahead of time I'm just worried that we might not get something that would be a great fit for our situation so that's why I haven't pulled the trigger on line. I've interacted and communicated with several breeders and a couple even sent me videos of their snake being handled but I just thought it may be better to see it in person.


Any advice is welcome!!!!

[MmmBanana]

Ive never been to a show, but my only advice I have after reading your post is, DO NOT be afraid to ask questions. I have not talked to a breeder yet that was unwilling to answer any question I was willing to ask.

[Godzilla78]

If you are worried about having to feed live and dealing with a snappy biter, I would AVOID buying a hatchling. Hatchlings are defensive and they prefer eating live. AN ADULT BALL PYTHON WILL BE MUCH LESS AGGRESSIVE AND MORE LIKELY TO TAKE FROZEN/THAWED, if the previous owner had already taken the time to handle the snake and switch it to pre-killed.
There are a ton of adult ball pythons on Craigslist and other places, that need loving homes, and they are often already tamed and ready to eat non-live prey.

[SDA]

If you do not want to feed a snake live make sure you ask what they are fed on and only get f/t fed snakes.

Ask when they were born and if getting a morph what the genes are. Ask things like when they last ate, when they last shed if they have and how much they weigh.

Haggling is ok but be reasonable. Offering $50 for a $200 snake isn't a good idea. Don't necessarily take the cheapest seller. If someone is trying to offload a snake because they are afraid they can't get rid of it, you might want to rethink their quality of care in being a breeder and raise a flag on getting such a cheap snake.

If they will not let you handle a snake, do not buy it.

If you don't see what you like for the price you feel fair to spend and from a seller you feel you can trust, don't buy.

[bcr229]

I would not plan on buying at the expo. Get contact info for the local breeders and find someone who would be willing to meet with you to take time to get you exactly what you want. An expo isn't really a good place to do that - if it's crowded the people vending are not only talking to you but they're also spending time making sure nothing gets swiped off the table, they're talking to others, etc. Also snakes can act very differently at expos than they do normally; many seem easygoing but it's because they are stressed and in temperatures that are colder than normal so they're torpid.

[zina10]

Be prepared to be caught up in the moment.

Its hard not to fall in love with something at a Expo, and in the heat of the moment you will most likely disregard at least some of your formerly set priorities.

A vendor telling you the snake eats frozen/thawed or is a sweetheart is also not a guarantee that it will. They are there to sell. They will tell you what you want to hear. The reputable well known breeders will tell you the truth, but I can tell you now, most have no time to "tame" hatchlings or convert them to frozen / thawed. I only have 13 hatchlings right now, and converting them not only to frozen/thawed but also rats is WORK. And takes a LOT of patience and time.

All my snakes that I purchased were mailed to me by very reputable breeders. All arrived healthy and thriving. NONE ate frozen / thawed before they came to me. All switched either immediately or after a couple of feedings. They were far easier to switch, then the hatchlings I bred. That is because they were already established snakes with a few meals in them. Plus I gave them plenty of time and privacy to acclimate correctly.

So to find a reputable breeder, that just so happens to have a white BP that has already been switched to F/T and has been handled enough to be calm and "tame". You said it yourself, that is a tall order. If you "shop" online, you have a bigger chance to find this. Because you cast a larger net. And you won't be caught up in the heat of the moment. If you go to an Expo, you WILL come home with a snake, LOL.

Perhaps you as a family will have to sit down and discuss the possibilities that you will have to MAKE your snake into your dream snake. Set the most important priorities. Which should be health (fed a bunch of times, good weight, reputable breeder) and then ...morph if that is important to you. If the snake eats live...well, you can switch it. If there is no way, no how that this is ever an option, perhaps a BP is not for you. Sure, most can be switched to F/T , but sometimes it needs a bit of time and patience. Starving a young one to accomplish that goal is not advisable. Even if you have been told the snake has eaten F/t before, doesn't mean it will right away at your house.

Temperament. Make sure everyone is on the same page that the calm/sweet temperament is something that happens with time and patience. Over handling doesn't speed this up. And if there is a setback (defensiveness or a feeding mistake) it is just that. A setback. They are live animals and they can have a pissy day here and there. You learn to read their body language and when to leave them in peace.

You can absolutely find your dream snake. Do not settle (to much). Just be prepared for the possibility that some things may need to be worked on or given time.

[honeybee]

My advice - write down the questions you want to ask before going in, because as mentioned, in the heat of the moment you might go brain-dead and end up going home without knowing what your new snake was eating. Happened to me! Luckily the breeder I got Viago from was very responsive over instagram.

Also, ask to handle the snake your interested in! Most breeders will be completely fine with this and even welcome it, and it will give you an idea of how the bp does with handling. At an expo, with everyone passing by and being in tiny, unfamiliar containers, they're likely to be a little stressed. Keep that in mind when considering the snakes potential temperament. If a breeder doesn't allow you to handle the snake, that's an immediate no. Holding it will not only allow you to have an idea of their temperament but will also give you the opportunity to look the snake over for any injuries, scale rot, mites, etc. You don't need to do a full examination lol, but giving it a quick once over is a great idea.

Some questions I'd have written down:
What are you currently feeding it? Live or f/t? What size? How often?
How old is it/what does it weigh?
What genes does it carry/what produced it (parentage)?

Also read the breeder's body language/attitude. A good breeder will be happy to answer absolutely any questions you have and won't hesitate to provide you with contact information whether or not you've purchased from them that day. If they seem hands off or dismissive, I'd steer clear, that just indicates they may not be open to talking with you down the road should you have any questions, or god forbid, any issues with your new baby.

[hollowlaughter]

For me, priority is

Disposition > Finances > Looks

As others mentioned, you can check your local herp societies, that way you're liable to find adults with established personalities at a low/no cost. Otherwise scan whose coming, contact them in advance, ask for animals you're interested in seeing. Might just be our local ones, but usually they haul a few adults along per vendor.; retired breeders, friend sales, etc.

Ask for the sweetest/friendliest snake and go from there.

re: the BEL --

This might just be me since they're not my cup of tea but I think given your wife's concerns and the age of your daughter, you might need to plate looks in favor of disposition. The good thing about this is, you can make this a hobby with your daughter by buying a snake that breeds into a BEL, pair it with another appropriate snake later, and then your older daughter you can have a (bred) BEL made from a snake she's known since she was a child. If she hangs onto that for that long, she'll be able to care for the animal for 30 years and it'll be special to her. And if she gets bored of it in 2 months, it's a much smaller investment than a BEL who might turn into a nightmare personality wise. That's the best compromise I could consider, so your wife's not worried about a snappy animal, you're not worried about finding a BEL with a non-flighty personality in such a small pool, etc.

[Rhys]

Don’t judge your noodles book by its cover! Looks shouldn’t matter over disposition. I would get a well fed tame-ish baby and then see what morph it is. You could just end up with an amazing normal or pastel. Try to handle the snakes and get to know them! Have fun with your new noodle!

[Regius_049]

I have purchased the vast major of my reptiles over the internet and received them in the mail like many others here. There are pros and cons to this approach - The cons: you can't see the animal in person and you almost always have to pay an additional ~$50 in shipping (15% of your budget). The pros are that you can take your time with correspondence, you are unlikely to make an impulse purchase, and you don't have to attend the show. I personally like reptile shows because it's fun to see all the reptiles, but the I am also afraid of bringing home mites. There are a plethora of stories of people bringing them home on their clothing. That said, reputable breeders do attend reptiles shows, not all, but some. Reptile shows usually last for many hours, so if you find a snake you like and want to talk to the breeder, I doubt you'd have trouble asking everything you can come up with unless the show is particularly busy.

All that said, if I could give you one piece of advice: be prepared to go home empty handed if you don't find what you are after.

Budget: $300-$350

Morph: my daughter loves the white pythons… BEL, Super Fire, Ivory. I like them too but I also love the pied. My wife loves whatever one we get that is least likely to bite my daughter lol.

So there a few things here - I saw a few suggestions that buying an established adult will make things easier in regards to temperament and handling and that would be easier than a hatchling. While I would tend to agree with that assessment, you are pretty unlikely to find a "white snake", be that a pied, BEL, ivory, etc. adult for < $350. Adults are almost always a fair bit more expensive than a hatchling of the same morph due to the work/time that goes into raising them. Also, the majority of snakes people have to sale at shows and online are hatchlings. Adults are much less common, but you'd be more likely to find an adult online than at a show.

Feeding: It will absolutely have to take F/T. That just is what it is. I actually had a braz rainbow boa when I first met my wife 13 years ago and she could not get over the live feedings so that was part of the agreement was that I knew I could go the F/T route with the new one. The problem is a lot of the bigger breeders feed live so I'm a little nervous about trying to buy something that is feeding live and trying to convert it to frozen. Am I better off asking the person at the show what it's feeding on and simply staying away from anything that is feeding live?

You can of course get a snake that is already feeding on F/T mice, which will solve the lion's share of this concern. However, in my opinion, you have to be prepared to feed it live. My reason being is that some snakes, over time, will change their personality and "finickiness". What I mean by this is that you could get a snake that is currently eating F/T and then one day, he/she will just decide that isn't good enough anymore. It could be due the fact that it has decided its current caging is somehow insufficient anymore due the amount the snake has grown, or it could just change its mind for no apparent reason. While this is not extremely common, I have had it happen on a few occasions. This "F/T boycott" may only last a week, or it may last a lot longer. Sometimes one live meal will be sufficient to wet its appetite and it will go back to F/T no problem, other times it takes a great deal of shenanigans to rectify the issue. This is the one downside to ball pythons as a pet snake, and the main reason when someone asks: what beginner snake should I start with? I almost always say California kingsnake. I have never had a Cal. king refuse a meal of any kind. Now I have had hatchling ball pythons that had eaten live all their (short) lives and nail F/T on the first try and never look back, but getting a snake that is already eating F/T is certainly stacking the deck in your favor. I am just warning you that a snake that is eating F/T is not necessarily a permanent state.

Handling: This is a tough one. We definitely want a snake we can interact with and learn to hold and respect and learn and body language etc. but I absolutely also know that a lot depends on the snakes personality. I have had both types of personality… A beautiful Colombian Redtail boa that was puppy dog friendly and the greatest thing on earth then I've also had an albino Burmese python and my rainbow boa we're both very very defensive and difficult to handle. That's part of the reason we like the ball python because generally it's more docile but I also know that there are some that are just nippy and more defensive. That's the main reason I have not bought online because I want to be able to handle it and just see if something feels really calm and comfortable not that I will know because I'm not super familiar with the balls and haven't had a snake and 12 to 13 years.

It has be suggested by a few breeders that certain color morphs influence temperament, for example, darker snakes are more aggressive. Pieds are lazy, etc. There is a short video on a bit of it here. However, I am in the camp that morphs have the same temperament of a normal, they simply look different (mayyybe with an exception to the spider). I don't think a white snake is any more or less likely to bite your daughter than any other color morph. If someone is going to get bit by a ball python, the most likely scenario is that they get bit feeding the snake. While some ball pythons can be nippy, in my experience, they are by far in the minority and they often mellow out with age. I actually tend to like a slightly aggressive hatchling as they seem to seldom refuse food.

In short - You are unlikely to get a nippy or aggressive animal regardless of what morph you pick and regardless of where you purchase it. That said, if it tries to bite you at the show, you probably have a nippy hatchling.