Seasonal Fasting

[hollowlaughter]

I've noticed December seems a common start for most, but given that I'm at 45N, would a seasonal fast reasonably be starting now? Boy's gone from eager to snap at food the moment that it's given to only responding to the hair dryer (I'm assuming the vibration gets his attention) and then staring wistfully at his food.

Nothing's really changed, other than he's fully 2yrs old and gained about 300g since I got him in May (2017). He's a 2015 hatch, but was around only 500g when I got him? Pushing 800g now.

Essentially wondering if that weight+age means this might be his first fasting year, and if so, am I far enough north that it might end up happening earlier than December, especially since it's been around 60F vs the 90F we were having a few weeks ago.

(Info: Enclosure temps are stable, 78F cool, 90F hot, same as ever. Keep cool a bit colder than recommended since he prefers it there. Nothing seemed to be an issue with this feeder, did everything the same and its from a batch he's been happy to eat rats from for months now. No signs of freezer burn or anything like that, either. Simply one week happily lunging for his meals and next week, nothing. Don't think it's a shed, either. Tho he is a LITTLE pink in the belly, still, he was eating at this point during his previous sheds with me, so I can't exactly be thinking that's it either.)

[Aerries]

My boy we got 1year 8months ago was at a whopping 120g and at 500g in stopped feeding this past February and started back up on July 10th he wasn’t even two years old at that point....just my personal experience but he’s a 2014 hatch I imagine or early 2015....obviously petsmart didn’t know anything


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[MandMac]

For a few years, one of my snakes fasted seasonally (Dec-Mar). It stopped when I addressed the humidity issue I had.

[Crowfingers]

My boy was hatched in July 2015, I got him in October 2015 at ~130g. He ate every feeding that whole winter and summer and gained weight steadily.
Then Sept 8 to Oct 21, 2016 did not eat at all (he was around 750g). After that he would eat every 14 to 20 days the rest of the winter 2016 and picked back in the spring 2017.
From mid March 2017 to August he ate every 10 to 14 days (as of August 9th he was 1115g), then went into shed on 8/15/17.
He stopped eating again from 8/9/17 to yesterday 10/7/17 (he is 1125g).

I can only guess that this may be a pattern (though two years is not much of a data spread lol). I am in Virginia (37*N so not as far as you). His temps / humidity have been consistent for the entire time. I will have more info in the coming years to see if it actually a pattern, but only time will tell.

I don't know how much weight v.s age plays into this, but I would assume that the first year of life is dedicated to growth and each successive year this drive slows and *may* lead to longer / more frequent fasts. In captivity when they have consistent meals and environment they probably don't need to divert all of their energy into growth, which would also be why petstore snakes or snakes that were underfed will pound every meal they get until they are "stable".

Don't know if this helps or is just rambling...

[hollowlaughter]

My boy we got 1year 8months ago was at a whopping 120g and at 500g in stopped feeding this past February and started back up on July 10th he wasn’t even two years old at that point....just my personal experience but he’s a 2014 hatch I imagine or early 2015....obviously petsmart didn’t know anything


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Got him from a breeder actually, know it's 06/06/2015 for hatch date, he just had a lot of feeding issues and breeder sold him to me up-front mentioning he was a difficult feeder and that's why he was held back until adulthood -- didn't want to sell a young, unreliable feeder. "Skipping weeks" was regular for him, but he has fed weekly for me since May.

Why I'm thinking it's seasonal, possibly. Temps are down and sunlight wanes faster up here.

My boy was hatched in July 2015, I got him in October 2015 at ~130g. He ate every feeding that whole winter and summer and gained weight steadily.
Then Sept 8 to Oct 21, 2016 did not eat at all (he was around 750g). After that he would eat every 14 to 20 days the rest of the winter 2016 and picked back in the spring 2017.
From mid March 2017 to August he ate every 10 to 14 days (as of August 9th he was 1115g), then went into shed on 8/15/17.
He stopped eating again from 8/9/17 to yesterday 10/7/17 (he is 1125g).

I can only guess that this may be a pattern (though two years is not much of a data spread lol). I am in Virginia (37*N so not as far as you). His temps / humidity have been consistent for the entire time. I will have more info in the coming years to see if it actually a pattern, but only time will tell.

I don't know how much weight v.s age plays into this, but I would assume that the first year of life is dedicated to growth and each successive year this drive slows and *may* lead to longer / more frequent fasts. In captivity when they have consistent meals and environment they probably don't need to divert all of their energy into growth, which would also be why petstore snakes or snakes that were underfed will pound every meal they get until they are "stable".

Don't know if this helps or is just rambling...

Yeah, this seems to be what I was thinking, or else there was some issue I couldn't see with the feeder. He's out cruising now which I'm taking as a sign he's still hungry but not gonna let him try again until next Saturday to avoid refusal syndrome. He's a sensitive case as mentioned above, just was a serious 180 into my care, then a 180 back out to refusal.

Nothing's changed which is kinda what blindsided me.

Brought up age/weight since I know 2 yrs and 500-600g is when sperm plugs start happening roughly (iirc) causing the refusals during breeding season. This would be his first year hitting both, unless he had previously and shed weight in the breeder's care. Putting fat on in a new home and then dialing back may indeed be another consideration.

Just definitely not wanting him to slide back into the biweekly thing if possible.

[hollowlaughter]

Frustrating when your animal is showing all the signs of being hungry (he ripped up the enclosure last night "hunting") but refusing to eat for whatever reason is in their silly reptile brain.

Which means I've been stuck debating over the causes that wouldn't be temps/humidity (those are holding stable in usual ranges) such as his hide size (too small?) or overall enclosure size (on the verge of being "too small"). Was planning to upgrade him to a tub this winter once the tree tubs are available, but eesh.

[scooter11]

Males tend to fast as a relation to the breeding season. If you have stand alone tanks it tends to be more of an issue, although it happens with most ball pythons. The main reason being that most breeders use rack systems and tend to maintain ambient temperature in the room higher than most who don't use racks. You can have a hot and a cold side using a uth or flexwatt but it is harder to keep the ambient up with the more height you have to the cage. If your cage has more height, then you are relying on the uth to heat the whole space and it is asking a little to much. As a result, your ambient temp in the cage drops unless you keep the room at a low to mid 80 degree range. When that ambient drops, that triggers their breeding season and they shift their focus. It is important to note that your hot and cool side can stay the same, but your ambient can drop. You can circumvent this a little bit easier with a closed rack system because they are very low and retain the heat very well. You can also do it, as I mentioned, by keeping the ambient in the room up. hope this helps.

[Crowfingers]

Also, when mine does skip a meal or two - feeding a female rat nearly always works... I keep records of size and gender of prey as well as date fed, and he refuses on male rats about 5 out of every 6 refusals since I got him. He also started refusing every rat from big cheese rodents, and his skipped meal frequency dropped once I started getting rats from Perfect Prey.

I will note that most of these refusals / mini-fasts that only involved missing 1-3 meals...but male rats seem to be his least favorite. I tend to save the females from each shipment and feed those after he has missed a meal or two.

Maybe yours also has gender bias

[hollowlaughter]

Males tend to fast as a relation to the breeding season. If you have stand alone tanks it tends to be more of an issue, although it happens with most ball pythons. The main reason being that most breeders use rack systems and tend to maintain ambient temperature in the room higher than most who don't use racks. You can have a hot and a cold side using a uth or flexwatt but it is harder to keep the ambient up with the more height you have to the cage. If your cage has more height, then you are relying on the uth to heat the whole space and it is asking a little to much. As a result, your ambient temp in the cage drops unless you keep the room at a low to mid 80 degree range. When that ambient drops, that triggers their breeding season and they shift their focus. It is important to note that your hot and cool side can stay the same, but your ambient can drop. You can circumvent this a little bit easier with a closed rack system because they are very low and retain the heat very well. You can also do it, as I mentioned, by keeping the ambient in the room up. hope this helps.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I figured, given the sudden change of weather between the start and end of September here. He's definitely in a stand-alone ATM and I figured the big temp/weather shift may play a part for such a drastic change.

Also, when mine does skip a meal or two - feeding a female rat nearly always works... I keep records of size and gender of prey as well as date fed, and he refuses on male rats about 5 out of every 6 refusals since I got him. He also started refusing every rat from big cheese rodents, and his skipped meal frequency dropped once I started getting rats from Perfect Prey.

I will note that most of these refusals / mini-fasts that only involved missing 1-3 meals...but male rats seem to be his least favorite. I tend to save the females from each shipment and feed those after he has missed a meal or two.

Maybe yours also has gender bias

One refused was a female, but he was taking both with no preference before this. Same stock as I've been using, since I bought a 6 month supply at the last local reptile expo from a larger breeder who does them in house.

That's definitely stuff I'll keep in mind, but for now I'll offer next Saturday, see if he takes it, and if he doesn't, weigh him to get a solid empty reading weight and offer biweekly from there on out. Gender fasting as mentioned was something I was prepared for since this is likely his first year at what could be called "sexual maturity" based on the signs I've read from breeders.

No seasonal fasting BEFORE that, since as you mentioned, they're packing it on the first year or so.

[Aerries]

Hmmmm never ever even heard of gender preference for feeders lol maybe I’ll watcha that moving forward lol


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