Should I try Live Mice for NON Feeder?

[simon07989]

I have a Burmese Hatchling who is almost 12 weeks old and has eaten at random times the odd chick, rat put etc.

He has not eaten in 3 weeks and as the feeding was so sparse prior he has never put on any size to use as reserves. Hence at not eating for 3 weeks he is already going saggy in the skin and loosing weight.

He comes out every night looking for food and I see him drink.

I have tired rat pups, mice, chicks. Hot water method. Braining. Gutting chicks and covering rats. Leaving in box overnight. Leaving in hide. Leaving on hide. Waggling for 30 mins.. etc etc.

I can even show him a chick which he sniffs and looks like he wants to eat but after a time I leave it in with him and he ignores. Looking again around his RUB and at the lid for food!?

I am afraid he will get to weak soon to have the energy to eat so want to ask if I should use a live mouse to get him going?

I did try to assist feed a rat put but couldn't get his mouth open.

Please don't shout at me for asking to try live, that is why I am asking so you can all help me out.

Thank You,

Simon

[artgecko]

What size prey should he (ideally) be on? Also, have you tried f/t ASF yet? I had a non-feeder on a month's long hunger strike and she decided to take f/t ASF and I've been able to work her back onto rats now... Just a thought. They are hard to get online, I've only found 2 sellers that have them, but if you can find a local breeder, that might be a good option.

If you do live, just be very cautious and ready to step in if the mouse bites him or tries to. Also make sure the mouse has been fed prior, so it isn't hungry, and it is not a bad idea to put a piece of lab block or other food in the tub for it to be interested in / distracted by.

If you have exhausted all other options, feeding live might be your only choice... I had a male hognose that refused to feed off of tongs (I think he developed a fear of them) but would also not take non-moving food. I eventually had to attempt a live rat pink with him and he took it without any issues.. I rehomed him to someone that bred their own feeders and he has been doing great on live small prey ever since. (he had fasted for months with me before and I seriously thought he was going to starve).

[simon07989]

Prey size I guess he should be on Small Rat Weiners, or the next rat down, Fuzzies I think.

I did try f/t ASF but only for around 30 seconds when I got stressed as the snake wouldn't open its mouth. I perhaps need to try again as I really only want to use Live Mice at a last resort due to them then only wanting live and not wanting to breed them myself. I have a source for Live Mice at £5 each so its not cheap either really..

How do you get the snake to open its mouth? And how often would I do this, every 5 days perhaps until he puts some weight on?


I am guessing at some point the snake will strike feed the rat itself will it?

Thanks..

[Prognathodon]

Don't worry about getting yelled at here for considering/doing feeding live, plenty of people understand. If you do end up having to go that route, watch out for yourself, too. I'll take a bite from a snake over a rodent any day!


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[artgecko]

I would save force-feeding for a last resort... I've never had to do it, but have heard of injuries to the snake and the snake stressing so much that it's health declined more.

You may want to try moving the f/t prey around differently... try for more realism..or try to offer it from the side so that you aren't directly in the line of sight (or heat sense) of the snake. that could help.

Did he ever eat f/t for you?

Some that take live can be switched back to f/t. I offer my ASF feeder an f/t ASF first and then wait for her to swallow, then give a f/t rat afterwards, which she will accept because she is then in "food mode".. I think a similar method might work with live - f/t transition.

You may also want to try p/k (pre-killed). that is getting a live feeder and killing it right before offering. This might be tricky if you don't have access to a CO2 chamber though, as cervical dislocation is the only other humane method and is difficult to do unless you know what you're doing.

yeah...wear gloves.. just in case. I've been bitten by a rat and it was far worse than any snake bite. Mice can bite pretty badly too. I'd avoid handling it as much as possible to reduce the risk.

[Zincubus]

Maybe try the hairdryer method rather than hot water ... try evening - blast for ten seconds with hairdryer and waggle in front of his nose IMMEDIATELY whilst still warm .. after 20 seconds , repeat the hairdryer blast and offer again IMMEDIATELY .. repeat until grasped...

Good luck !!


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[simon07989]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the replies.

I tried an assist feed with a f/t rat pup. The snake wouldn't close its mouth, and when I put him back in the RUB he spat it out. I tried again but epic fail so snake was stressed and so was I.


I left if over the long weekend and last night had to PowerAde him as his skin is getting so saggy and he looks dehydrated.

I tried leaving him alone in a little box with a brained Rat Pup but no take, this was after a I tried with a warm and bloody chick waggling around his RUB.

I will leave him 24 hours and try a bloodied chick in a box alone.

If this fails I will leave him 24 hours and try a Rat Pup heated via the hairdryer like suggested.

If this fails I will leave him 24 hours and try this weekend which will be over 4 weeks since fed a live mouse.

I have obtained some information about the guy who sold me him at the Doncaster Reptile Show. He apparently collects everyone's snakes form Ireland that have not sold and brings them over to the UK to sell. They are known to be non feeders, wild caught etc and lots of people are having the same issues I am.

I honestly think if he does not take a live mouse that after trying everything, save from attempting assist feeding again that he will die. I guess this is all part of snake keeping is it? if it is, back to the drawing board I guess to hunt down my dream Burmese.

[artgecko]

I am sorry to hear that you haven't had success with him yet. Unfortunately, there are some scummy people in this industry / hobby...Just as in any other. If he doesn't make it and you do have to look for a new snake, I'd suggust researching the person you are planning on purchasing from.. Maybe just purchase from a breeder directly off their website, etc.

If he will take live, then you may need to consider if you want to keep him long term (knowing he'll have to be fed live) or if you will want to attempt to rehome him to someone that can feed live regularly. It is a tough decision to make, but might be necessary.

Have you taken him to a vet yet? If there is someone tha knows reptiles in your area, it might be helpful to take him in. They could at least do fluids and check for parasites, etc. or attempt an assist feed. I would only try this if the vet has reptile experience though. In my area, no vets work on reptiles...I had to go 45 minutes away just to find someone to treat a mouth infection in one of my snakes.

Good luck!

[cchardwick]

I would imagine that the force feeding attempts could stress him out to the point where he won't eat. Most people only force feed a hatchling that has never eaten anything. I'd try a live rat pup with the eyes still closed and keep it in overnight. You should post a photo of your setup and the snake. Not sure you should be force feeding a three month old snake. Personally I wouldn't use a live mouse unless supervised at all times. I find that if the snake strikes the mouse and misses the mouse figures it out and becomes aggressive towards the snake and can do some serious damage. Usually I watch the live mouse and if the snake misses even once I remove the mouse and gas him with CO2 and try to feed fresh kill, then pop it in the freezer if the snake doesn't eat it. Once the mouse figures it out you should never use that mouse again to feed live. Rat pups are totally harmless as long as their eyes aren't open.