New adult female feeding strikes on me - how to judge hunger/weight?

[VorpalZard]

I recently adopted an adult female normal morph. She's 5-6 years old, 1200g, and ~ 4.5 feet long. She'd been kept in a 16-gallon aquarium with mesh top and a single 8W heating pad in the center. No hides, but an oversized towel that curled up on the ends. It also has melted bits on the mesh from a heat lamp improperly placed at some point. They said she'd been being fed 2 adult mice per feeding, live in cage. They also said she was super tame and loved being held.

I've moved her into a 321 boaphile with hides and proper humidity, temps right now run ~78F on cold wall and ~90F w/ probe on hot end of tank under the hide. She moves around often and doesn’t seem to prefer one end or the other.

I've had her three weeks and fed her a medium (140g) f/t rat, then 7 days later a small live rat, then again 5 days later a small rat, all in a large cardboard box out of her enclosure. She’s had 3 urates, but no bowel movement.

Today (4 days after last feed) I took her out to clean her enclosure, my SO held her for a ~10 minutes while I cleaned, then I held her for ~3 minutes with her acting normally and just exploring with tongue flickering before she started to nose along my forearm with her snout. I immediately lifted her neck and she moved away, but as I was moving to put her back in her enclosure, she turned around and nosed into my arm again. She didn’t strike, she just slowly put her nose against my arm and pushed inward to open her mouth, just like she would with a dead rat. I caught her neck quick enough to prevent her lower jaw from catching, but she still got a few teeth into me. Clearly feeding behavior and not defensive.

This is after another strike a week ago, where she grabbed and held onto my pectoral after nosing underneath the open zipper of my sweatshirt. That also seemed to be feeding behavior.

I’m wondering if 1200g sounds underweight for her age, and if so, how much and how often should I be feeding her? Additionally, what is a good target weight? According to care sheets (5-7% body weight/week) I feel I’ve been slightly over feeding her so far, but she seems to be hunting all the time and always hungry. For a snake that was billed as enjoying being held, and who in general is very easy to pick up, she seems to be trying to eat me an awful lot. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her defensive, she just seems to be hunting. Is this an indicator of hunger/underfeeding, or is she just a normal snake and I smell like rat?

Edit: Formatting

[CeeJay]

Two adult mice isn't enough. My guess is that she's probably long but skinny. I have a 6 year old normal female and she's 2500 grams. I wouldn't OVER feed her. Maybe start out with a medium size rat and build from there. I would image that her stomach isn't used to digesting a 140g rat so go smaller and work your way up. Give her 2 hides if possible (one on each end).

[Timelugia]

This is after another strike a week ago, where she grabbed and held onto my pectoral after nosing underneath the open zipper of my sweatshirt. That also seemed to be feeding behavior.

Edit: Formatting

Reminds me of those stories of snakes feeding off of nursing mothers

Do you have any small animals she could be smelling on you?

[VorpalZard]

Two adult mice isn't enough. My guess is that she's probably long but skinny. I have a 6 year old normal female and she's 2500 grams. I wouldn't OVER feed her. Maybe start out with a medium size rat and build from there. I would image that her stomach isn't used to digesting a 140g rat so go smaller and work your way up. Give her 2 hides if possible (one on each end).

She has two identical hides, the black plastic type, about 8"x12" footprint. She's uses them often, but also ends up lifting them up and being half in and half out as well. I'm considering making them heavier.

Reminds me of those stories of snakes feeding off of nursing mothers

Do you have any small animals she could be smelling on you?

I do have cats, but I've been careful to wash well before handling her. The house of course smells like cats I assume.

How do I judge skinny vs heavy? I know if she's obese she'll have the valley above her spine, but how do I tell slightly underweight?

[melcvt00]

There is also no reason to feed her outside her enclosure, either. You are both moving a hungry snake and also one that just ate, which adds a risk of regurge.

[VorpalZard]

There is also no reason to feed her outside her enclosure, either. You are both moving a hungry snake and also one that just ate, which adds a risk of regurge.

I appreciate the advice. With respect, that's a hotly debated topic and unless you feel it's directly related to her biting (when no food is in the room), I'd like to keep the thread aimed at her biting and target weight. I have reasons for doing it and it hopefully won't be this way for long. She's never struck while inside her enclosure and never struck on feeding days. She bit this time during necessary handling to clean her enclosure.

[DennisM]

... With respect, that's a hotly debated topic and unless you feel it's directly related to her biting (when no food is in the room), I'd like to keep the thread aimed at her biting and target weight.

No, it's not hotly debated at all. A separate feeding enclosure is pointless and adds stress. This is pretty much universally accepted among experience keepers. You say that the bites are clearly a feeding response. Did the snake constrict you as it was biting? This is usually part of a feeding response. The snake is in a new home and needs time to acclimate. At 1200 grams I would say it is an underweight 6 year old female. This is a weight I consider borderline small/ medium rat weekly. If she takes the mediums without a struggle, I would continue that.

[VorpalZard]

No, it's not hotly debated at all. A separate feeding enclosure is pointless and adds stress. This is pretty much universally accepted among experience keepers. You say that the bites are clearly a feeding response. Did the snake constrict you as it was biting? This is usually part of a feeding response. The snake is in a new home and needs time to acclimate. At 1200 grams I would say it is an underweight 6 year old female. This is a weight I consider borderline small/ medium rat weekly. If she takes the mediums without a struggle, I would continue that.

Yes, she tried to constrict every time she bit. She takes a medium no problem, but for now the preponderance of advice I've gotten has said to stick to small rats and feed weekly or every 5 days.

[cletus]

Yes, she tried to constrict every time she bit. She takes a medium no problem, but for now the preponderance of advice I've gotten has said to stick to small rats and feed weekly or every 5 days.

I'd just give her an appropriate sized rat weekly and feed in the enclosure. If that's a medium based on her weight and size, feed her mediums. She will get there once she is on a normal feeding schedule with proper husbandry. You should see some of the animals posted here that are rescued in horrible shape. Once they are properly fed and watered they bounce back quite nicely. Resist the urge to overfeed just to get her to the weight she should be.

[KingWheatley]

Curiously... When I asked about this exact behavior, I got a response that my Cookie possibly had a respiratory infection.

Cookie isn't under/over fed, and is currently on a diet of one large mouse. (He isn't even a year old, so not quite big enough for the normal BP rat... though I can switch over to rats right now, but mice are cheaper and work for the time being.)

He's only done it once to me. But it was without coiling. He normally has a TREMENDOUS food response. Full and fast powerful strike with wrapping/squeezing. I've yet to have any problems specific to feeding.

That one particular time that he opened his mouth and just kind of nommed (I guess you could say) on me, I let him for a moment, and he just pushed against my thumb. His lower teeth caught on my skin, which startled him and he shied away on his own. No coiling or anything.

It almost seemed as if he was trying to itch his nose and accidentally opened his mouth because of the pressure on his snout? I'm not 100% of course, but this was the possibility I reached based off the event and also the offer of that it was a possible RI.

I'm not entirely sure, but it could also be that it was a warm area, and she was hungry in general (as most previously underfed animals tend to be, even after eating), so likely it was an almost uncontrollable reflex.

Anthropomorphizing a bit here, but when we are starved, we can feel hungry even after we have eaten our fill because we haven't digested the necessary vitamins needed, so we continue to crave the food. I can't imagine, as I am not a snake, that a snake is THAT much different when it comes to basic instincts that we share with a lot of other animals.

That being said, I really think because she was previously underfed, that she had a bit of an uncontrolled food response because she was craving for food?

Just speculating, here.


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