Young snake won't take F/T, try live next?

[ferrislongdog]

I received my python on the 2nd this month, and after leaving him alone for about 6 days have been trying to feed him, in decreasing size every 4 days, a f/t mouse. I tried in the tank, he ignored it. I left it overnight and nothing. I tried in the tank first the second time around, he looked at it, sniffed it, and ignored it. I then tried moving him to a tub after leaving him with the mouse for a little bit, and he a few times would watch it on the tongs, smell it, and even poke it with his nose but not even try to strike at it. I left him in the tub in his tank with the mouse (in the middle of the tank, a little towards the cool side) overnight and he had just shoved it into a corner. This last time I tried a fuzzy, which is less than his girth (at 108g), that was heated up in hot, not boiling, water and even tried dipping it in chicken broth. Still just got the occasional glance, a poke or two, and then ignorance. I contacted Snakes at Sunset, where I ordered him, and I was told to try an appropriately sized live rodent which would be a small mouse in my case. I assume this means he was fed live at the breeder's, so I can see why that may effect this. I have not handled him outside of moving him to try to feed and putting him back, and he's been left alone for a couple days now.

He is set up in a 40 gal, but I have loaded it with plants, a couple hides and have three sides (currently four as I have draped the towels on top of the tank over the front as well) covered. The warm side is at 86-90, the cool side in the upper to mid 70s. Humidity is kept to at least 50% with damp washcloths on the screen lid, a sheet of plexiglass covering the top, and then towels over top that. He is pretty active, I hear him slithering up the foam background or rustling (and falling) around during the day on occasion and at night. He seems to be pleased with his hides as well, and uses both cool and warm ones.

Should I go to live next time? I plan to do so in a tub he has room to move around in and will supervise. Or is there something else to try first? Wait and keep trying f/t? I realize I can switch him over off live after a few meals. I also do not know when they fed him at the facility last, so I am not 100% when his last meal was. It must not have been very recent, as he has not pooped so he may have digested it (which sounds most logical as he was shipped) before I even put in the order.

[kxr]

I received my python on the 2nd this month, and after leaving him alone for about 6 days have been trying to feed him, in decreasing size every 4 days, a f/t mouse. I tried in the tank, he ignored it. I left it overnight and nothing. I tried in the tank first the second time around, he looked at it, sniffed it, and ignored it. I then tried moving him to a tub after leaving him with the mouse for a little bit, and he a few times would watch it on the tongs, smell it, and even poke it with his nose but not even try to strike at it. I left him in the tub in his tank with the mouse (in the middle of the tank, a little towards the cool side) overnight and he had just shoved it into a corner. This last time I tried a fuzzy, which is less than his girth (at 108g), that was heated up in hot, not boiling, water and even tried dipping it in chicken broth. Still just got the occasional glance, a poke or two, and then ignorance. I contacted Snakes at Sunset, where I ordered him, and I was told to try an appropriately sized live rodent which would be a small mouse in my case. I assume this means he was fed live at the breeder's, so I can see why that may effect this. I have not handled him outside of moving him to try to feed and putting him back, and he's been left alone for a couple days now.

He is set up in a 40 gal, but I have loaded it with plants, a couple hides and have three sides (currently four as I have draped the towels on top of the tank over the front as well) covered. The warm side is at 86-90, the cool side in the upper to mid 70s. Humidity is kept to at least 50% with damp washcloths on the screen lid, a sheet of plexiglass covering the top, and then towels over top that. He is pretty active, I hear him slithering up the foam background or rustling (and falling) around during the day on occasion and at night. He seems to be pleased with his hides as well, and uses both cool and warm ones.

Should I go to live next time? I plan to do so in a tub he has room to move around in and will supervise. Or is there something else to try first? Wait and keep trying f/t? I realize I can switch him over off live after a few meals. I also do not know when they fed him at the facility last, so I am not 100% when his last meal was. It must not have been very recent, as he has not pooped so he may have digested it (which sounds most logical as he was shipped) before I even put in the order.

Have you been moving the prey around at all? I know it sounds kind of strange but mimicking the movement of a live animal helps peak their interest. It may be time to try live though. Honestly in my extremely limited experience it is relatively easy to switch a snake over once it gets comfortable enough with eating the live prey.

Edit: Let me add something rq before someone on here roasts me for not saying it lol

Can you post pictures of the enclosure and give the temperature & humidity you have him at. If nothing else (depending on the weight) it might not be a bad idea to leave him alone for a week or two and come back offering live food.

Also, moving him to the separate container may be stopping him from wanting to eat. I'm honestly not sure if that's a problem with ball pythons but I know my carpet python sure didn't want to eat outside her cage when I first brought her home lol

[KMG]

Feed in the tank.

Make sure that you are offering the prey at a temp that mimics live prey. A live mouse has a body temp around 100F so you need to get it a bit above that to make the snake recognize it as food.

I have always used water to defrost. After the rodent is thawed I give it fresh water as hot as it will come out of the tap to get the rodents as warm as possible before presenting them to my collection. I at one point used a zip lock bag but they always leaked so I stopped long ago. I feed them soaking wet and nobody has ever seemed to care.

[ferrislongdog]

The temps and humidity said in the first post are current. I'll get a picture of the full setup when it's daytime and the day bulb is on. I did try to "scurry" the mouse around, he seemed scared of it. I did long passes across his hide and he curled up and tucked away his head. He only gets close and pokes it if I hold it nearly still and then he just seems to immediately get bored and decides to ignore it.

The last time I thawed the fuzzy I did so in hot water until it felt warm to the touch, close to live temperature. He followed the heat signature for a second and smelled it but ultimately decided it was of no use to him. He actually seems to pay attention to the prey more in the tub than in the tank where he just smells it once and slithers away, never to touch it again, even staying in the cool hide to avoid the warm one where the mouse was sitting near.

I'll wait another three days to make it five since I last bothered him, and still am considering trying live again as I just don't want to try the f/t and have it fail to leave him without food for another few days.

[KMG]

100F to me feels more than just warm to the touch, more hot.....to me. Once removed from the water the prey starts to cool fairly quickly. That's why the prey needs to be a good bit over 100 when you take them out.

You don't want to try to often and stress the snake out. You have to find a nice balance and when you do offer food do it as quietly and stress free as possible.

[cletus]

I'd make sure you aren't using water too hot to thaw the rodent. I'd let it thaw naturally and then heat it with a blow dryer or something like that. If you cook the prey the snake wont take it. If you are buying the prepacked frozen mice from Petsmart or some place like that, just leave the bag out for a couple hours at room temp and it will thaw. Warm it up and present it. The only time I haven't been successful is when I overcooked the prey with overly hot water. it's a lot easier to do than you would think. Good luck! I hope he starts eating for you!

[Stewart_Reptiles]

A 100 grams snake should not be house in an enclosure that is designed for an full grown adult, no matter how much you cover it up, fill up empty spaces the majority of animals that size will not do good. A good enclosure should grow with the animal.

Do this to a T https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101

[ferrislongdog]

In a few days I can try to put a small mouse under a hair dryer since the hottest tap water made it hot but only for a few moments where he would kinda poke at it and then decide against it (if that's not as hot as it should be). I don't know how else to offer it since moving it with the tongs spooks him a little, but he ignores it if it's just still on the ground. I guess since last time it's been less "gross I'm not hungry leave me alone" and more so "nah I'm bored I want to go somewhere else" Hopefully the five days will let him continue acclimating and maybe then he'll be ready. If the hot mouse (I will be careful it's not cooked or dangerous) doesn't get any interest I will probably be trying live just to get him to eat /something/. If he ignores the f/t mouse in his tank should I give it up or try moving him so it's easier to find the heat signature?

[kxr]

Oh derp I totally missed that second paragraph the first time I read the op. You definitely need to move him to a smaller enclosure, that's likely the reason why he doesn't want to eat.

I'd make sure you aren't using water too hot to thaw the rodent. I'd let it thaw naturally and then heat it with a blow dryer or something like that. If you cook the prey the snake wont take it. If you are buying the prepacked frozen mice from Petsmart or some place like that, just leave the bag out for a couple hours at room temp and it will thaw. Warm it up and present it. The only time I haven't been successful is when I overcooked the prey with overly hot water. it's a lot easier to do than you would think. Good luck! I hope he starts eating for you!

I've never heard this before and I find it really interesting. So you have first hand experience with snakes not wanting to eat food after it's been sitting in hot water for too long? I wonder what changes in the rat to make it undesirable after it's been "overcooked".

[cletus]

Deborah makes some crucial points. That enclosure is way too big for your snake no matter how much you clutter it up. Husbandry is very important. The feeding technique can be perfect but if he is too stressed to eat, he's not gonna eat.