New purchase. Heating Questions. With BP Pics!

[BPnuB]

Yesterday I was looking for an aquarium on Craigslist for some garter snakes I plan to pick up at the upcoming reptile show. I ended up with two of the following: 50gal ExoTerra terrarium, Herpstat 1 controlling UTH on hot side, incandescent heat lamp on hot side, Blue moonlight LED light, timers for day and night lights, hides on both hot and cold side, Humidity sensor and temp sensors in both enclosures, and a bunch of snake care stuff. I didn't even want the snakes but wound up with an albino and a banana BP. Gorgeous snakes. Both purchased from a reputable breeder. The previous owner is moving and was having a hard time getting rid of all the stuff. I paid 425 for everything.

I'm not understanding the importance of having both a UTH and a heat lamp. The heat lamp is only on during the day. But the snakes hide all day long and don't seem to go between the two hides. From what I can tell the snakes stay in either the hot or cold hide all day. So if there is a UTH in the hot hide then why is a heat lamp used? Why don't they thermo-regulate during the day? This morning one was in the hot hide (lying on UTH set to 96 degrees) and the other was in the cold hide at closer to 70 degrees.

Just a quick description of the setup - heat lamp on hot side, on during the day only. UTH on hot side attached to herpstat set to 96F. Temp probe is inside the enclosure just under a rubberish mat.

Thanks in advance.

[Mangiapane85]

Gorgeous snake! As far as why they're not moving.. mine stay on their heat mat in their tubs all day long for the most part, but when I check on them every morning I can tell that they were out and about throughout the night time. Makes sense considering they're nocturnal animals..But with thermoregulation, sometimes these guys will sacrifice body heat for safety and security. Try putting the same hide on the hot and cold side so they don't have to sacrifice warmth for protection. Also be sure to purchase a temp gun if you don't have one yet and use it to make sure the hot spot stays right around 90. Good luck with your beauties! ... btw, how much does the albino weigh?


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[BPnuB]

The albino is 13 months old, both bp are male. The previous owner was power-feeding, one mouse twice per week. I intend to get them on a more typical feeding schedule - That will be my next avenue of research. I would rather the snakes be smaller than larger. Or at least normal size. I haven't weighed either snake.

I know you weigh them to determine how much to feed them but that doesn't seem to make sense to me if I am starting off with an animal that was definitely over-fed.

The albino has a scar between his eyes - The previous owner said that he wasn't sure where it came from and that it should go away after the next shed. Hoping so.

[PitOnTheProwl]

The previous owner was power-feeding, one mouse twice per week.

That is not power feeding......
Depending on the weight of the mice vs the weight of the snake that may be underfeeding.

[Mangiapane85]

The albino is 13 months old, both bp are male. The previous owner was power-feeding, one mouse twice per week. I intend to get them on a more typical feeding schedule - That will be my next avenue of research. I would rather the snakes be smaller than larger. Or at least normal size. I haven't weighed either snake.

I know you weigh them to determine how much to feed them but that doesn't seem to make sense to me if I am starting off with an animal that was definitely over-fed.

The albino has a scar between his eyes - The previous owner said that he wasn't sure where it came from and that it should go away after the next shed. Hoping so.

Given the look of that albino, he should be on rats. 2 mice twice per week probably isn't even enough. .. although he does look to be at a good size.


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[BPnuB]

I've got a lot of research to do.. The previous owner said he was power feeding with the two mice per week so I assumed he knew what he was talking about.

My brown snakes eat earthworms and I just feed them when they act hungry. Which is every other day.

[Coluber42]

The heating situation partly depends on what the temperature in your house is like. The UTH by itself is likely not enough to provide both the hot spot temperature and the right ambient temperature everywhere else, so it makes sense that you would need to supplement with the lamp. However, that's still not ideal because you presumably still need it at night. I'd replace the heat lamp with a ceramic heat bulb (you can use it in the same fixture that you already have), which doesn't produce light, so that you can maintain good ambient temperatures all night without having to have the light on. Another alternative is a radiant heat panel, or an additional UTH set to a lower temperature.

I wouldn't worry if the snakes don't switch hides during the day, that's like not getting up in the middle of the night to switch bedrooms. They settle in where they are, and then most of the time they stay put until it's wakeup time. The other thing that is helpful is providing stuff like fake (or real) vines/plants, tubes, etc, so that the snake can get from one side to the other with some cover. It might not be so much a preference for one hide or another that prevents a BP from switching, as a preference not to cross open ground.

For what it's worth, the snake in the warm hide was probably not sitting there at 96 degrees; if the UTH was set to that, the temperature on top of the substrate is probably a lot lower. If you have an IR thermometer, you can point it at the snake to check its body temp; I'm sure it isn't 96 degrees. The snake in the cool hide might not have been all the way down to 70, either; if the hide is a dark color it could still be absorbing heat from the lamp and get warmer inside than the ambient temperature around it.

That said, 70 is pretty low for a BP. You should shoot for high-70's to 80 for the cool side and 90-ish for the warm side. It doesn't matter that much how you get there.

[Mangiapane85]

I've got a lot of research to do.. The previous owner said he was power feeding with the two mice per week so I assumed he knew what he was talking about.

My brown snakes eat earthworms and I just feed them when they act hungry. Which is every other day.

I feed all of my BP's every 4 days like clockwork. I don't at all consider it power feeding. I give them one prey item per feeding, except for my Mojave female, she usually prefers two lol. And I always give them prey that's just bigger than their largest part of their bodies. Ball pythons are far from brown snakes. But if you want to just feed them once per week, that would be fine too I'm sure. I want to breed my snakes so I do want to put on good weight, especially for the females. But you seem to just want them as pets, so once every 7 days would be fine.


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[BPnuB]

Thanks for the assistance so far - Actually one thing the guy told me is that I should keep substrate off the heating pad so that they can get directly on it (at 96 degrees). I bought the terrarium with the snakes still inside and I haven't changed anything from the original setup. Should I cover it in substrate? Currently both snakes are in their warm hides. I was curious about their temperature -

Here is a shot of the albino in his hide -



You can see his markings around the bullseye - Top left is the reading in the center of the bullseye. So a body temp of 91.6 with a max temp of 95.3F

Pretty impressive that the herpstat is set to 96 and FLIR is reading within 1%.

Here is the cold hide -



Here is one of the center of the enclosure - The dark spot in the center is the water bowl. Looks like the gradient in the center (not including at least 8" on either side) is about 75 to 93F.

[Eric Alan]

With temps that warm, I'd save yourself a few pennies off the electrical bill and turn down the Herpstat. Hot spots over 90° are basically useless and can actually increase the rate at which females produce slugs rather than viable eggs. I can't remember the exact figure or where I read/heard it, but the tipping point seemed to be around a body temperature in the mid-80s for decreased fertility. Also, in BPs in general, prolonged exposure to temps over 95° are also said to have impacts on their neurological function.

About the substrate - you certainly could put it over the hot spot. There's no harm in doing so at all. If they want to move it out of the way and lay directly on the glass, they will be able to.