Boa breeding questions...paired today....good signs...?

[MontyP2016]

Ok, so after much thought and loss of patience (and persuasion from a friend/fellow hobbyist) I put my male into my females enclosure today. Within half an hour they were rubbing together, one hour he was completely on top of her and they start twisting tails, then a couple things happened which I have never experienced nor read about yet. I figure, what better people to ask than here?

First want to note that although my male was on top and they were twisting tails I did not witness a lock. My male stuck the last few inches of his tail straight up while he was on her, is that normal and what does that mean? Ive only ever witnessed this during pooping. Secondly, about an hour after I notice him on top of her, I notice that he moved to where his head is over her tail and his tail is over her head, on her completely the length of their bodies (fourplay maybe? Lol) Anyway, I also notice on the bottom of the enclosure a wad of what appeared to be seman next to her tail....something I have definately not read about with boas. Ball pythons lock up for hours and even longer than a day or more, if they did lock, it couldnt have been more than an hour. I know this is only day one but I would love to learn as much as I possibly can during this whole process. Thank you!

[CloudtheBoa]

I've seen said time and again, it's rare to actually see a lock happen, but the tail sticking straight up like that seems promising, but if you saw it it likely didn't all make it into the female.

Just be sure to keep them together until the female is 100% gravid. Boa breeding is different, and every source I've read says the male needs to focus all his attention on one female and needs to remain there until she's gravid, otherwise he may not fertilize all her ova. I'd bet on having them paired for a few months at least.

I'm sure any experienced breeders will chime in to correct/expand/or second anything I've said, that's just what I've read in my research and passing comments from breeders over the years. With any luck, my first pairing will be next fall.

[MontyP2016]

Yea I was just talking to my buddy about this last night. With Ball pythons you can leave them together for a few days and seperate them for a few days to rest/eat. I have read many different methods with boas from never seperating them to seperating every week to seperating every few weeks. I dont like the idea of them not eating for a couple/few months so I was considering seperating them every 2-3 weeks to offer a meal. Even if they refuse it, I would like to offer it. They are both very healthy so I am not to worried about them skipping a cpl meals--just dont want them skipping many if I could help it.

[Nussman]

Yep that is standard and is a good sign. The male will work on her for quite a while in various fashions. I have been keeping my boas paired for a week at a time for the past couple seasons which has worked well for me.

[Warren_Booth]

Boa breeding is very different than ball python breeding. Indeed, many try to get into it, and ditch out because unlike their ball projects which almost always result in eggs, boa breeding is very very different. Courtship lasts weeks to months on occasion, and very rarely do I ever use a male on more than one female.

Her is what I do.

1) Starting November I stop feeding. This continues until late February/early March. In March, feeding resumes and I will feed males every 3 weeks and females every 2. I feed slightly smaller than normal sized meals, and continues feeding meals if she will eat during gestation.
2) I do not alter my temperatures, however, two things happen in my snake room. 1) My house is 100 years old, and while the actual living part is fully modernized, the basement is the standard, partially finished basement (walls, concrete floor, light. That's it. In the summer the ambient is in the mid 70s, in the winter, it is in the mid 60s. This natural drop in room temperature means that the front of my racks or the cool end of the cages changes from the low 80s in the summer to the low 70s in the winter. I find that my snakes spend an increasing amount of time in these cooler areas in the winter. 2) I have two small windows in my basement. Come November 1st, I seal these with styrofoam sheets and heat reflective material. They are a major heat dump, so I try to minimize loss that way. As such, my snakes are now in a room with zero natural light. I only put on the artificial lights when I am there working with snakes, or doing something else in my basement. The snakes are very inactive at this time.
3) Come January 1st, I put the male into the females cage. I will monitor them hourly to see what activity is happening. If the male is hiding in the corner or under the water bowl, I remove him after a day, and try again a few days later. If again that happens, I will put him in a larger cage or tub on his own for a few days (depending on the size of the female), then introduce the female to him. If I see no activity, I separate, and retry a week or so later. After 5 or 6 failed attempts, I will split the pair and consider either a second make, or simply waiting another year. One thing I will do at this point is palpate the females. I do not use an ultrasound, but instead use the old fashioned method of letting the female move across my finger tips that are depressed into her ventral surface. If she is developing follicles, these will feel like pearls on a string. Once they are the size of marbles, or maybe slightly larger, then I know that she will be receptive. If I feel none, then it is unlikely that she will breed that year. I monitor this weekly
4) If locks occur, I will keep the animals together for 5 days, then separate for 2 to 3 days. I will continue this until an ovulation is observed. I will palpate females to see if follicles are increasing in size as the weeks progress. Continual growth is what I want to feel.
5) Once I am happy that a female has ovulated (noted by both a horizontal and vertical swelling), I will leave the male with her until she has her shed. It will be a prolonged shed, normally in the range of 17 to 21 days. At this point the male is done and he is removed and returned to his cage.
6) I then want to see that the female is basking in a beehive position, with her body temperature in or around 86.4oF. Once I see this, I am happy and sit back and wait the 95 to 104 days or so that gestation lasts. My CAs often go early, the earliest being day 90 for a sonoran boa I had (that was a very healthy litter with no unabsorbed yolk).

So, to your first questions, the tail in the air is simply a sign that he is receptive to mating. The tail twisting is a sign that she is also. Not seeing copulation is normal. Many will miss it, but I always make a point of checking when pairs are tail-twisting for a long period of time. I have pairs that will tail twist and lie motionless for days on end. Regarding the orientation of the male, it is not uncommon to see them switch around a bit. Finally, semen deposits near the tail can result from two things. Simply over-spill after copulation has ended, or premature ejaculation without intercourse. Some also mistake urates deposited by the male or female as semen.

Good luck.

Warren

[MontyP2016]

Awesome, thank you all! Not quite as old fashion but my basement has concrete floor and brick walls, I use multiple electric heaters (one for my Savannah monitor, one in with my roaches, and one right in the middle of my snake section that only kicks on if temps fall below 76 degrees). The ambient temp is kept between 78-80 degrees, and their hot spots are about 88 right now. I lowered the ambient and belly heat on October 1st due to what I've been reading, especially that 95 degrees can kill fertile sperm in males, however they have the same temps night and day because I do not have any special thermostats (just el cheapos right now). Since dropping the heat I've noticed my females start cool seeking and bowl wrapping (which I thought was only something they did AFTER copulation) but some other signs I've noticed (or THINK I've noticed) which is why I paired them already. This is my first year breeding and although I've already learned an immense amount, I still have much to learn (more with boas vs. balls), and every day is a new experience for me. Thanks again for all the input, much appreciated!

[MontyP2016]

Warren, I hope you read this....lol I was going to make a new post but I thought I already had a similar post I could attach this too...and I did... Anyway, my male and female have been together for 9 days now, either tail wrapping, male on top of female-the entire body length, or both. Everyday they are either in the same position or in another position but I NEVER see them move from one side of the cage to another, they switch around when I'm not looking and I NEVER see them apart, they are always on/twisted/around each other. Well, that's awesome, I am excited that they are so receptive but as I keep everything documented-my calendar is reminding me that it's feeding time...well...passed feeding time for both of them. From what I read Boa's are different than bp's and a lot of people keep them together for weeks at a time instead of the weekly rest/feed rotation. You mentioned that you would leave them together for 5 days and then separate for food/rest. What would you do in a situation where they are NEVER apart? Would you still take the male out or would you leave him in there for as long as he is courting her? I know I sound like a novice when I say "I don't want to starve them" cause I know they can go a very long time without eating, I just want to make sure they are healthy and I am doing the right thing. So....should I separate and feed or leave them together for as long as they're together? Common sense tells me to leave him in there for as long as he is on her...just trying to get some educated advice. Thank you