2 Part Question: BP Shed and Poop

[KingWheatley]

My little Beep is having his shed, and it looks like he's going to need a little help. I helped him out a little last night. But during one bit he jerked away as if it hurt him, but then came back and pressed against my fingers. After a little bit he seemed overwhelmed or overstimulated and wanted to hide. I kept a wet towel on him under a lamp, and the shed was loose in some places, but more firm in others. It's coming off in pieces rather than all together.

When I was helping him take it off, I was peeling it off him. I was trying to go head to tail, but some pieces of it went backwards. I tried my best doing it slowly and carefully so I didn't take out any scales, but around his neck and head he kept pulling himself away after I'd get ahold of some of the skin. After two times of this, I gave up with that and put him back. Currently he's sitting in his hide still half in his skin.

Secondly... He seems to have nothing against pooping on me. Is this a sign of stress? I've heard that snakes poop when stressed, but I've also heard this is a rumor resulting from anthropomorphizing them, and that it's actually because they are relaxed. He seems more apt to sit and chill on me when he's had a good poop. Sometimes he will fall asleep directly after.

[Seven-Thirty]

1. What are his temps and humidity like in his setup? When did your ball python start his shed? You should give him 24 hours to see if he can manage it on his own. If he's having trouble, there's a couple things you can do that are less involved than picking him up and peeling the skin on your own. These include: switching to a tub setup, covering 3/4 of the mesh screen on your tank with a sheet of acrylic or other plastic or offering him a humid hide box made out of an opaque tupperware. Shedding is already stressful on snakes, so you're probably compounding it on a baby ball python by picking him up and handling him.

If none of these methods work for you, then should you consider intervening by hand. It's easier if you let him soak for 20-30 minutes in a small tub with a couple holes for air poked in it. I've found that the skin comes off easier afterwards, especially if you use rubber thimbles for extra traction:
https://www.amazon.ca/Swingline-Rubb.../dp/B00007LB0H

2. For the poop thing, a lot of animals use poop as a defence mechanism or as a reaction to a stressful situation. I can't think of a way that you could link that behaviour to humans (I know I don't really poop on things that stress or threaten me). Or you could have the luck of picking him up as he needs to go.

[KingWheatley]

His temp is normal. I spray his enclosure and hides down, but not to the point where it's damp and can mold. Just before shed I have him a lukewarm bath and let him sit there for a bit, however the ceramic sink bottom was cold despite the warm water so he was trying to escape... So I didn't keep him in very long.

he seemed alright when I held him in the water though. I worry about cutting off the oxygen supply to his tank by covering the top, however I read a damp pillow case or towel under a lamp works as well. I did attempt that. It's been over 30 hours now and some of his shed is still stuck. A lot of it came off with a paper towel.

peeling was not a process I thought would be fun for him. And I am worried he's going to hate me. But bacteria can fester under the loose skin...

as as far as pooping goes, he doesn't generally show signs of stress, so I'm trying to see if he has hidden signs and is just harder to read...

[KingWheatley]

Also...

When I feel anxious or whenever I experience fight/flight, generally speaking I have to void my bowels. I get cramps under stress and gassy. And I imagine that this response might be normal.

[noodlestsc]

...Just before shed I have him a lukewarm bath and let him sit there for a bit, ...

I'm a completely new BP owner and am going through a bad shed right now too. Maybe the more knowledgeable will tell me if I'm right or wrong on this but I've heard you should only soak if there is a problem. Soaking him before a shed may actually make things worse because it washes away the oils they produce in pre-shed to help them shed.

[Seven-Thirty]

His temp is normal. I spray his enclosure and hides down, but not to the point where it's damp and can mold. Just before shed I have him a lukewarm bath and let him sit there for a bit, however the ceramic sink bottom was cold despite the warm water so he was trying to escape... So I didn't keep him in very long.

he seemed alright when I held him in the water though. I worry about cutting off the oxygen supply to his tank by covering the top, however I read a damp pillow case or towel under a lamp works as well. I did attempt that. It's been over 30 hours now and some of his shed is still stuck. A lot of it came off with a paper towel.

peeling was not a process I thought would be fun for him. And I am worried he's going to hate me. But bacteria can fester under the loose skin...

as as far as pooping goes, he doesn't generally show signs of stress, so I'm trying to see if he has hidden signs and is just harder to read...

You're not going to cut the oxygen supply, reptiles have different oxygen requirements but you would still obviously have to make air holes just like if you would put him in a tub, not too much so that humidity would escape but just a few holes to have some air flow.

You are also reading into your snake way too much. He's not going to hate you in the common sense that you are thinking of. If anything he might just associate you with an unpleasant experience. Honestly, if the humidity problem is fixed in the enclosure, he'll figure out how to shed himself. Helping a snake with their shed is generally very unpleasant and should only be done IF and ONLY IF you haven't fixed the humidity and it's been roughly two weeks and they still haven't shed.

Ball pythons aren't helpless as you might think. They're good and efficient at what they do and rarely do they need human intervention. As for stress, stop handling him every day. Ball pythons aren't social animals and at most you're just going to have him associate you with, "oh this creature isn't going to kill me." He's never going to love you, hate you, associate you with safety, etc. Your ball python is very small and should have minimal handling. You handling him all the time is probably the single most contributing factor of stress.

[KingWheatley]

You're not going to cut the oxygen supply, reptiles have different oxygen requirements but you would still obviously have to make air holes just like if you would put him in a tub, not too much so that humidity would escape but just a few holes to have some air flow.You are also reading into your snake way too much. He's not going to hate you in the common sense that you are thinking of. If anything he might just associate you with an unpleasant experience. Honestly, if the humidity problem is fixed in the enclosure, he'll figure out how to shed himself. Helping a snake with their shed is generally very unpleasant and should only be done IF and ONLY IF you haven't fixed the humidity and it's been roughly two weeks and they still haven't shed. Ball pythons aren't helpless as you might think. They're good and efficient at what they do and rarely do they need human intervention. As for stress, stop handling him every day. Ball pythons aren't social animals and at most you're just going to have him associate you with, "oh this creature isn't going to kill me." He's never going to love you, hate you, associate you with safety, etc. Your ball python is very small and should have minimal handling. You handling him all the time is probably the single most contributing factor of stress.

when I handle him I don't have him in my hands. He is either on my chest or lap and I have a blanket over us. He falls asleep frequently there and if he starts moving heading back to his tank I pick him up then and return him. He does not show any signs of stress which is why I'm being very watchful for any possible signs.

[Seven-Thirty]

when I handle him I don't have him in my hands. He is either on my chest or lap and I have a blanket over us. He falls asleep frequently there and if he starts moving heading back to his tank I pick him up then and return him. He does not show any signs of stress which is why I'm being very watchful for any possible signs.

Whatever works for you then. If a ball python is still eating it's a good indicator that it's fine. I'm just saying that removing him from his secure hiding spot every day could be a big source of stress, especially for a small snake.

[Ax01]

Also...

When I feel anxious or whenever I experience fight/flight, generally speaking I have to void my bowels. I get cramps under stress and gassy. And I imagine that this response might be normal.

sorry but that's funny.

[KingWheatley]

I'm a completely new BP owner and am going through a bad shed right now too. Maybe the more knowledgeable will tell me if I'm right or wrong on this but I've heard you should only soak if there is a problem. Soaking him before a shed may actually make things worse because it washes away the oils they produce in pre-shed to help them shed.

I got that from watching Cinnamontoastken and his girl, SuperMaryFace. Bathes encourage bowel movements and ensure the skin and scales are hydrated and can assist with shedding. A sort of proactive approach. At least that's the impression I had. I have heard that over hydrating, over bathing, and keeping humidity too high encourages bacteria growth which can lead to infections, also that over-bathing creates shedding issues.

I have had some guy yelled at me for not keeping my heat constant at 100-105 (without gradient) because that's desert heat. Evidently he heard this from some professional snake breeder. I don't believe it, mind you, because I've also heard from another person that higher than 88(?) can sterilize your snake. But my point is that sometimes you hear things from people who have experience and background who know what they are talking about that make it seem that is the ONLY way to care for snakes. Something that I've run into frequently is mostly people who have vicarious experience tend to repeat what they've heard from their Heros (I guess...?) without testing it themselves.

Like people who watch Brian Barczyk (may have spelled that wrong) from SnakeBytesTV. That man is VERY skilled at breeding snakes successfully. And I've had very pleasant conversations with the guy. I would recommend talking to him. However, and the reason I brought him up, is people who watch him act like the viewers of the Dog Whisperer. People watch these guys and suddenly become self-acclaimed professionals/experts and think that because it worked for them/their idol it must be the only way to care for an animal.

For example, the rack system. Having small plastic tubs. There are a lot of people here who think that's the only way to house your snake. This is not true. (There are also a lot of people who know that glass tanks work too and recommend some awesome materials to get. So don't get me wrong on this. Just don't take one thing from one person.)