Bad clutch questions from first timer (pics of deceased embryo)

[hfritchy]

Hi! So, I've tried breeding my two jungle carpets for a few years now and this was the first time I got eggs. Unfortunately some were bad right away, and then some died after about a week. Near the end there were only about 8 our of 22 that still looked decent, and they ended up going bad as well. I have a couple questions for someone more experienced than myself. I had the temp between 87 and 89, humidity around 95%. They were on vermiculite. What could cause them to all die off like they did? I'm wondering if it was a mistake I made, or because the female had never laid before, or for some other reason. I'm also wondering about the color. In the picture you can see that both embryos are about the same size, but one clearly has black and the other doesn't. There were a few other ones that lacked color as well, about 3 of the 10 or so we opened up. This one was the only one that made it to that size and the others were much smaller, so we didn't know if it was just that they hadn't developed black until we had this one to compare the black ones to. The female is a snake I bought from a pet store labeled jungle carpet, and the male is a VPI like pure jungle I got from Black Hills Pythons a few years back. As far as I know there aren't really any jungle color morphs so I'm seriously confused. Any help would be incredibly appreciated.



I don't understand why they would have developed this far and then died I guess.

Below are pictures of the parents, mom then dad.

[Prognathodon]

IIRC hatchlings are ugly ducklings, but I have no actual experience. I'm sorry your breeding attempts aren't going well, the parents look nice.


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[Oxylepy]

Not experienced at all but I have been reading up on incubating carpet python eggs to respond to this topic.

So far I have picked up that the temperatures should be between 88 and 90 degrees, which yours is only slightly short of. Secondly, how did you have the eggs in the vermiculite and was there enough air flow in there for the snakes to breathe through their shells?

Did the eggs get rotated at all? That can be dangerous.

Again, no experience, just asking questions which may help someone who is more experienced figure out what happened.

[hfritchy]

Not experienced at all but I have been reading up on incubating carpet python eggs to respond to this topic.

So far I have picked up that the temperatures should be between 88 and 90 degrees, which yours is only slightly short of. Secondly, how did you have the eggs in the vermiculite and was there enough air flow in there for the snakes to breathe through their shells?

Did the eggs get rotated at all? That can be dangerous.

Again, no experience, just asking questions which may help someone who is more experienced figure out what happened.

I think the bin possibly needed more ventilation, but the eggs in the vermiculite about half way up the sides. I checked them daily so I figured that would be enough air flow, but there were no holes in the bin. I'm using a ventilated bin for my ball eggs. They didn't roll at all.

[Oxylepy]

Unless Carpets are different from bps, half way is fine, from what I have seen from bp breeders (I used maternal incubation). Checking daily is enough air from my knowledge of the subject.

Hrm, all that seems about right. Other questions: Condensation in the tub? Mold? Uneven heating (unlikely, but thought I'd ask)? Nutritional deficit in the parents? Underweight mother (doesn't look like it, though)? Did you clip the eggs early?

Honestly I can't think of anything that would be a glaring issue here, I doubt it's misidentification and cross breeding of species...

Next time you could try keeping the eggs off the substrate (something I have seen a few breeders do) instead. I looked into maternal incubation with carpets and people have mixed success, many others seem dead set that artificial is the only way. Before preparing to breed again, perhaps take them to the vet for a checkup. And I was wrong on the temps, a lot of people have success at 87-88 degrees, so that wouldn't be a problem.

[piedlover79]

The daily checks if you were opening the box all the way may have been the problem. Every time you open the box you lose a lot of humidity and the temp will flux as well depending on the difference between the room air and the incubator air temp. With ball pythons I only open up the box once a week to freshen the air, other than that they are in a *sealed* box with press and seal over the top under the lid for further humidity lock. Again, this is what I do with my ball pythons.

[Oxylepy]

Hrm, I'm starting to notice that incubation suggestions for humidity are around 80-90% humidity, and have now seen that too much humidity can be a problem. Pictures of carpet eggs in eggboxes show some dimpling being a good sign for the eggs, and if they oversaturate with water it can kill the babies.

The walls of Carpet Python eggs allow for a lot of humidity loss and gain. Care must be taken to make sure that your eggs do not take in or lose too much moisture too fast. If your eggs are swollen with water it is likely that you will experience full-term mortalities. Your eggs should begin to collapse at the end of your incubation period and it is not uncommon for them to be half their peak size just before they hatch.

http://ectotherms.net/kyherpsoc/carpetpythons.html

Alternatively, and probably more commonly, the eggs can be removed for artificial incubation. I set python eggs up on a mixture of vermiculite and perlite mixed about 50/50. The vermiculite is wetted down and mixed well. Dry perlite is added until the mixture can be Lilly on eggscompressed loosely into a ball with slight pressure, but dry enough that no water can be squeezed out. This is not an exact science, nor does it need to be. Watch the eggs closely, and if they swell too much or indent too much, then appropriate measures can be taken to correct for the right moisture level.

http://www.australianaddiction.com/junglecare.html