Size check

[Lizardlicks]

So I bought my pewter ghost boy Riddle from a reptile expo in May. He's tiny. Only 69 grams at the time of weighing him when we got home (I need to weigh him again now that it's been a month, but my scale broke, yay). He was a twin hatch, and he's a male to boot, so I didn't think his small size was anything to question. He was a little more triangle shaped than I'm used to but I figured it was because he was young. Breeder that sold him to me was being pulled in about 5 different conversations at once, and I forgot to ask (my bad) so I never got his hatch date (that is going to bug the crap out of me having it incomplete in my records). I emailed the breeder a few days after the show to see if he might have it, and he said he'd lost some paperwork in his move.... that happened in December. that confused me, I assumed at his size Riddle was a 2016 hatchling, but even if he hatched right before the breeder did a move that would put him at around 5 months old at the time. I asked if he knew roughly whether Riddle was a 2015 or 2016 hatchling for clarification, and he stopped responding to my emails.

That doesn't sound quite right to me, especially since this kid has been rounding out quite nicely with only a once a week feeding. Actually fed him every 5 days for the first couple weeks because he just seemed... idk how to describe it, but hallow maybe, like his belly was a bit concave. You can see some of the pictures I posed in this thread when I first bought him. He just took his first f/t rat pup today without hesitation, was eating small-ish adult live mice before, and has been extremely alert for any more food crossing his path between meals, so I know he's not a problem feeder. I know all snakes are different, but this one seems to be sending up red flags for me. I could just be I used to the larger, faster growing females though, so:

Size check. What, in your experience, is the average weight of a reasonably well fed and maintained male ball python at 5 months old?

[chrid16371]

Snakes grow at different rates so even if there was an average it still wouldn't be true of all snakes. It doesn't sound like it's not possible for him to be 5 months and 69 grams. I have a female toffino enchi that will be paid off on the 25th and she is 8 months and 123g from a reputable breeder, 3 months and 54g difference then yours. Is weird breeder stopped contacting you though, maybe he personally didn't hatch him or something.

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[Stewart_Reptiles]

It's not the weight you need to focus on but the general look and health.

Weight can vary based on the size out of the egg, how fast the animal get started, prey size, feeding freqency, food refusal etc.

Comparing your snake weight to another of the same age means nothing.

The body shape and proportion should matter more.

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[Lizardlicks]

I don't think that was the case. At t he show he talked about how he would have heldback both twins if they'd hatched female, but since they were boys he was selling them. Certainly not a great experience compared to my interaction with other breeders who were more than happy to communicate via email, responded almost right away and answered any and all questions promptly.

When I get a new scale I'll get his weight and see what a month of regular feeding does. My females tend to grow 50-100 g at a time, and I'm not used to males yet.

Edit to add: Well, a month regular feeding as certainly helped him fill out a bit shape wise.

[LittleTreeGuy]

I wouldn't worry too much about his size. Keep his husbandry in check, feed him appropriately sized prey on a regular schedule, every 5-7 days, and I'm sure before you know it, he'll be over 500g and you'll think, wow, he's getting huge. lol

[Lizardlicks]

Oh yeah, he's growing no doubt. Eats like a machine. I think I'm more put off with my experience with the breeder than anything else. I really love being able to recommend breeders to friends as well as make follow up purchases, and I was really excited to meet a semi-local with a nice collection of decent looking snakes, but if it turns out that his customer service skills and husbandry methods are below par, then I can't really do either with a clear conscience, and that's disappointing. Kid had some scale rub and a bad shed to boot (though the last isn't terribly surprising given the stress of the show and the long car trip home to a new environment). I'm just trying to figure out if I'm seeing things that aren't there, or actually picking up correctly on red flags.

[bks2100]

I have a female het pied that looked concave too, but she was that way because her muslces would tense up whenever I picked her up (only way to see the concave anyway).

Just keep feeding every 5 days and weigh him every 2-4 weeks and you'll be fine. I have a pied male that's like 10 months old and he's about 300g. He's eaten every time for me but I was underfeeding him at first because I didn't think he could handle a rat pup when he definitely could. Some snakes just grow slower regardless of their gender though, don't worry about it, especially if you're not breeding.

[Lizardlicks]

I have a female het pied that looked concave too, but she was that way because her muslces would tense up whenever I picked her up (only way to see the concave anyway).

Just keep feeding every 5 days and weigh him every 2-4 weeks and you'll be fine. I have a pied male that's like 10 months old and he's about 300g. He's eaten every time for me but I was underfeeding him at first because I didn't think he could handle a rat pup when he definitely could. Some snakes just grow slower regardless of their gender though, don't worry about it, especially if you're not breeding.

Well I do plan on breeding eventually, but I don't want to rush it. I'd much rather see steady, healthy growth than power feed to get any of my snakes up to breeding size quicker. I don't think he's being under fed on a seven day schedule though: he's been taking pretty decent sized live mice (first one was 18g easy the rest have been in the 12-15 g range) and just took an f/t rat pup that was a little bigger than that yesterday.

[meganmarkita15]

I know if , it was me , I would def be thinking the same way as you are . Just dont buy from him again , or recommend him to friends/family


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[chrid16371]

I wouldn't say the size of the bp would be a reason to say he's not a good breeder, like I said I have an 8 month old 123g female coming in 2 weeks and the breeder is well known. Also being that it's breeding season he may have a lot going on so may he caught up in new hatchlings and such and hasn't been able to reply. Now if it has been awhile then yes I would say either he isn't checking his email or is avoiding you. I think what would be best is to be able to have a face to face conversation at his facility and look at all his snakes and maybe any records he keeps and then decide from there what kind of breeder he is. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but I sometimes wish I wouldn't have lol

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