Feeding mice/ rats to breeders

[threezero]

So I had a discussion with a local breeder lately. I plan to get into breeding in the future, he offer me some tips. He feed his breeder males almost strictly on mice with a few exception, he said that mice has a lesser fat content than rats. Males tend to become more lazy if they are raise on rats along. He also said that most breeder including himself like to feed their for sale hatchling on mice to keep cost down and to so that they grow a little slower. He is obviously successful in breeding and all his stock as far as I can tell are healthy and thriving.

Now having talk to other people and doing a little research it seems that other people recommend getting balls on rats ASAP. I have only purchase animal from a few different breeders, some were started on rats and some were started on mice. How do breeder here go about feeding their male and hatchlings? I just stocked up on rats and thinking about stocking up on mice for my male. It is really mainly a cost thing or is it really true that males do better on mice?

[cchardwick]

Are you talking about live or frozen thawed mice and rats? I started breeding my own mice, rats, and African soft fur rats. Had a few babies from the African soft furs and mice but none are big enough to feed yet, still about a month away. Right now I'm still buying live mice from the pet store, about 6 at a time for my 6 ball pythons. Now that they are on live mice they seem to each much better than when I tried to feed them frozen thawed, some of them I can even sneak in a second f/t feeding right after the live mouse. Now that I'm feeding live mice none will ever skip a meal, even in full shed. I have some pretty young / small snakes and already they can take a full size adult mouse with a very noticeable buldge in their belly. Once your snake gets bigger you'll for sure want something bigger like a rat. And most pro breeders feed their females medium to large live rats just before breeding season to make sure all their females are eating and gaining weight fast. I would imagine feeding mice to a full size ball python takes a lot more effort since you'd have to feed multiple mice (too many to even be worth it), keep the mice for the hatchlings. I also have some king snakes as well, mice are perfect for those guys and the snakes will never outgrow an adult mouse like a ball python. If I were you I'd try African soft fur rats instead of mice, they won't get bigger than what your largest ball python can eat like a rat, and they have almost no smell at all. Once male mouse is going to smell up your place pretty bad, I'm thinking of eventually getting out of the mice and sticking with ASFs and rats. Of course if you are buying frozen or live rodents, just enough to feed that week, you won't have to worry about the rodent breeding thing.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I start everything on mice, main reason is that I get a higher success rate of hatchlings taking their first meal the first time offered. Once they had their first 2 to 3 meals I switch them to rats.

As for animals fed mice or rats, grams per grams for animals like BP it's all the same as there is not nutritional requirement study that has been made.

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[WmHrbst]

I breed all my own rodents, and I feed mice to all my males. The cost of keeping mice is less than rats, with males typically being smaller, I prefer to feed my males a fully developed rodent. I like to keep my males lean and mean :-)

[threezero]

I try the whole breeding rodent things and it didn't work out. Too much work and smell involved so I feed strictly f/t now. I havnt ran into feeding problems yet *touch wood* although one of my new female is still on mice and I plan to switch her over the rats soon.

Feeding full grown rats instead of small rats make sense to keep them lean. That was the theory that I was provided with too. Now since I just stock up on alooottt of rats. Would feeding my male 1 rat every 2 week as oppose to 1 jumbo mice every week work to still keep them lean? Is any feeding their male rats and have trouble with them being too lazy to breed?

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I try the whole breeding rodent things and it didn't work out. Too much work and smell involved so I feed strictly f/t now. I havnt ran into feeding problems yet *touch wood* although one of my new female is still on mice and I plan to switch her over the rats soon.

Feeding full grown rats instead of small rats make sense to keep them lean. That was the theory that I was provided with too. Now since I just stock up on alooottt of rats. Would feeding my male 1 rat every 2 week as oppose to 1 jumbo mice every week work to still keep them lean? Is any feeding their male rats and have trouble with them being too lazy to breed?

You can keep a male lean on rat even if fed weekly, I have for a decade now.

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[threezero]

You can keep a male lean on rat even if fed weekly, I have for a decade now.

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What is the trick? Feeding slightly undersize rats?

[Stewart_Reptiles]

What is the trick? Feeding slightly undersize rats?

55/75 grams rats depending on the male's size.....it's not under size it's the right size rat for a male.

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[threezero]

55/75 grams rats depending on the male's size.....it's not under size it's the right size rat for a male.

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So assuming the adult male is around 700gram that is following the regular 10-15% body weight rule. Basically the same as female?? And also on the same weekly feeding schedule?

[Stewart_Reptiles]

So assuming the adult male is around 700gram that is following the regular 10-15% body weight rule. Basically the same as female?? And also on the same weekly feeding schedule?

I don't feed based on % just like I would not feed a 4000 grams female a 400 grams rat.

I feed based on what I now is right 55 grams rat are fed to males around 850/1000 grams, 75 grams are fed to males 1400 grams and over who are also lean but longer and older.