Worried about my pastel bp's size/weight

[Deadringer21]

[Edit] Yikes...Sorry in advance for the length of this post. tl;dr do these pictures look like a one-year old ball python? [/Edit]

What's up ball-pythons.net? I've been lurking around these parts for a couple of months, but I just now decided to register in hopes that I can get some advice regarding my concern for my new pet's development. I got Braska, my pastel ball python, from a PetSmart location in the middle of this past March; the girl who helped me with the purchase told me that they'd had him (or her? who knows - I'm not too worried about it) since June of 2015 (about nine months) and that their snakes are generally around three months old when they get them in, so we estimated that Braska was about twelve months old at the time. I didn't learn that they'd had him for nine months until just before the check-out process, but once I heard this I was shocked at how small the little guy was (pictures at the end). I didn't really measure him in any precise way since I didn't want to disturb him too much right off the bat, but I'd estimated that he was about 22-24 inches in length. A week after I got him, I clocked his first weigh-in at 80 grams on the nose. I was really expecting him to be much bigger than this (or really, I suspected that he was younger than I was told), but they gave me some paperwork with his feeding schedule which shows that they'd definitely had him for as long as I was told.

Anyway, since I got him I've been feeding him on a weekly basis, and it seems like he's been doing very well in his new tank in my living room. With my once-a-week feeding routine, he's yet to deny any of the meals I've offered him. Let me break down some of the details in a quick list:

• First of all, I noticed when flipping through PetSmart's feeding chart that they had him for exactly 38 weeks and offered him a meal once a week (every Thursday). Upon going through these records, I found it to be very concerning that he'd only taken a meal during 16 of the 38 offerings, including an eight-week period during which he did not eat... (spanning from 08/27/15 until he finally took a single f/t fuzzy on 10/22/15)
  
  • His last four Thursdays at the store show that he: ate two fuzzies, declined to eat, ate two fuzzies, and again declined to eat, respectively. These two double-downs are the only times he took two fuzzies; every other time he at, it was just one (and I'm not sure when they started offering two fuzzies per feed)
  
  
• I picked him up on a Wednesday, and the girl I worked with told me that he'd just finished shedding and that it probably wasn't even worth offering him a meal the next day since he'd be stressed from the move into his new home. Well I figured it was worth the $1.25 fuzzy charge just to try it out, and he did take the meal (his first kill!). Following this meal, I left him alone until the following week which was when I first weighed him
• From here, I began to stray from the routine Thursday feedings, though I am still keeping to an offering every 7-10 days. The following week I decided to give him a small mouse (a bit larger than a hopper) and he made a beautiful kill and willingly took the meal (I felt it was worth giving him something a bit bigger since he's a year old ball python)
• Seven days later, I fed him another small mouse which he took just as gracefully as the previous week's meal. Unfortunately, he ended up regurgitating the mouse two days later I felt terrible since I know this is a very stressful experience for a snake, so after I thoroughly cleaned out the tank I left him to relax for a week. Seven days after this, I started again with a two-hopper weekly routine
  
  • I believe he regurgitated this mouse simply because it was too big for him; I've been maintaining his tank since day one at about 60% humidity with the cool side being 78-80F and the hot side being 87-90F - he has a hide on each side with a large water bowl in the middle
  
  
• Since I picked up the two-hopper weekly routine, he's been eating at every offering and has not had any subsequent regurgitations

Ugh, is anyone still reading after all of that? Sorry to babble on in so much detail, but I figure more is better than less. Now, in less detail, I'll just include a very quick summary of his eating and his weight since I got him:

• Wed 3/23 - Braska came home with me
• Thurs 3/24 - 1/1 Fuzzy
• Thurs 3/31 - 80.0g
• Sat 4/2 - 1/1 small mouse
• Sat 4/9 - 1/1 small mouse
• Mon 4/11 - regurgitated above mouse
• Mon 4/18 - 84.9g (before feeding), 2/2 hopper
• Mon 4/25 - 92.6g (before feeding), 2/2 hopper
• Tues 5/3 - 102.5g (before feeding), 1/1 extra small mouse (slightly bigger than a hopper, whereas the previous small mice were a fair amount bigger than this one)

So anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Now, I don't know a whole lot about snakes (besides the extensive research I've done for this guy's tank and such), so I feel slightly stoopid for asking, but...he is a ball python...right? I mean at this point he's just about 14 months old, and he weighs a measly 102.5 grams as of yesterday. I've done lots of searching for some kind of standard growth-rate chart, and everything I've found shows ball pythons to weigh around 400g by eight months or so. I know that each snake will vary with its size and weight, but this difference seems WAY too huge to ignore.

It is concerning, but on the plus side I'm finding comfort in the fact that his weight is up exactly 20% since I started feeding him again after the regurgitation (16 days ago). 20% in 16 days, to me, suggests that he seems to be getting into a healthy growth rate since he's gained 10% mass each week. Further, I find it comforting that he's yet to refuse a meal since I've taken him into my care.

My main theory is that he was probably unhappy in his enclosure at PetSmart; a little guy like this should surely be eating MUCH more often than 16 times in 38 feedings (as he is now that he's with me). Also, he had just been finishing up a shed cycle when I got him, and still he has areas around his neck and head where the skin hasn't cleanly come off. Again, this brings my theory to include that the PetSmart probably didn't maintain anywhere close to proper humidity or even adequate tank sizing (the tank seemed to be a 10-gal tank, cube-shaped, which had an overhead light with a screen-top).

Here are two pictures I have of him from the first time I took him out to "play" about a week after I got him. Again, he's about 12 months old at this point. I don't have any full pictures of his tank right now nor can I take one since I'm currently at my office, but I can attach that as a follow-up if that would be helpful. My main question here is whether anyone has ever heard of a year old ball being this small... So for now I'll turn it over to you wonderful people; any comments and constructive criticism on what I've said above are welcome. Thanks in advance!

[embrit345]

Could the girl have gotten his records messed up? I can't see pics terribly well as am on phone in car park but he looks very small. I hope someone with more knowledge comes along soon xx


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[LittleTreeGuy]

So, first, congratulations on your new snake, and welcome to the forum. you'll find answers to all your questions here, along with a plethora of knowledge. There are some outstanding keepers and breeders here with a wealth of knowledge and seem to enjoy having their brains picked...

Your BP does look a little small, but having him on a good, consistent feeding schedule will take care of that, in time. The fact that he can hold his head up like in the photo shows he has some strength, just not size. Just realize, he's probably been underfed for a year... you don't want to try to make up for all of that too quickly, or it will do more harm than good. A good rule of thumb is to feed 10-15% of the snakes total weight. So if you have a 100g snake, his meals should be between 10-15g. Some folks just feed on size... you should feed a prey the size of thickest part of your snake, or slightly larger. This is tricky to me, for some reason, so I stick to the weight rule. My bp seems to be doing fine with that method. I feed every 6 days. I think even though your snake is a tad small, feeding every 5 or 6 days a meal of appropriate size is plenty. He'll continue to gain weight as you've been seeing.

You can continue to feed multiple mice, or try switching him over to rats. As he gets bigger, it's easier to feed one rat as opposed to two or three mice. That's up to you though, as long as he's getting the same volume of food.

Also, it's important to keep your husbandry in check. regulated heat, good humidity, two hides, etc...

I think in a months time, you'll see a tremendous difference in your snake.

[LittleTreeGuy]

I will add, in regards to husbandry, if you are relying solely on the thermometer/hygrometer that is attached to the side of your tank, I would invest in some Digital Accurite ones found at Lowes or Wal-Mart. In addition, it's better to have them a little lower in the tank so you can actually get readings from where the snake is, as opposed to the top of the enclosure.

[Deadringer21]

Hey all, thanks for the quick responses and warm welcomes.

I will add, in regards to husbandry, if you are relying solely on the thermometer/hygrometer that is attached to the side of your tank, I would invest in some Digital Accurite ones found at Lowes or Wal-Mart. In addition, it's better to have them a little lower in the tank so you can actually get readings from where the snake is, as opposed to the top of the enclosure.

Yeah, I do have this analog thermometer/hydrometer propped right smack dab in the middle of the back wall, but I also have a digital one which I move back and forth every few days from the cool side to the warm side, just to be sure that all levels are being kept properly. I also have an infared temp gun which I can use to instantly check specific parts of the tank. I appreciate your concern/advice, but I'm confident that I've got all of my bases covered

Your BP does look a little small, but having him on a good, consistent feeding schedule will take care of that, in time. The fact that he can hold his head up like in the photo shows he has some strength, just not size. Just realize, he's probably been underfed for a year... you don't want to try to make up for all of that too quickly, or it will do more harm than good. A good rule of thumb is to feed 10-15% of the snakes total weight. So if you have a 100g snake, his meals should be between 10-15g. Some folks just feed on size... you should feed a prey the size of thickest part of your snake, or slightly larger. This is tricky to me, for some reason, so I stick to the weight rule. My bp seems to be doing fine with that method. I feed every 6 days. I think even though your snake is a tad small, feeding every 5 or 6 days a meal of appropriate size is plenty. He'll continue to gain weight as you've been seeing.

Awesome. As I said, I'm very happy with the growth I've seen from him over the past few weeks, but it's definitely comforting to hear the same reinforcement from someone else. I've usually been feeding every 7/8 days as outlined in my boring list up above, but maybe I'll switch it up to every 5/6 or so. Since he hasn't turned down a meal yet, I guess it can't hurt to offer some grub slightly more often. I think I'll drop back down to hoppers for now and start going every 6 days. The only difficulty here is that I only know of one pet store nearby which sells live mice (I've called about a dozen others, but had no luck), and they don't even stock hoppers - they only ever have them if, by chance, some fuzzies stick around long enough to have their eyes open up. I suppose I could always go to F/T feedings, but that's what they fed him at the store and it clearly didn't have great success. For now he seems to love the live mice, and they're still far too small to do any damage to him (though I always do watch closely for this), so I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing until I have good reason to switch.

[bks2100]

Yes he's a ball python. I'm not sure I'd agree with the other people saying he's "a little" small, he's VERY small. Hatchlings aren't much smaller than he was when you first weighed him. The good news is it shouldn't matter at all. I'd just stick to weekly feedings and he should grow fine.

Only things I would recommend is switching to rats now so that it's easier to feed him later. I have a big female that hasn't eaten for me yet and I'm afraid the guy lied to me that she was eating rats and she's really a mouser. It's not the end of the world but I'd be looking at feeding her like 4 mice each week, which would probably take longer than to feed single rats to the rest of my snakes.

It's funny to me that petsmart has so many records for their snakes when they half ass everything else. Those tiny aquariums with screen tops and probably no heat aside from the bulb has to stress them out and make shedding SUCK. And then they're feeding their snakes fuzzy mice when they are able to handle fuzzy rats from out of the egg.

[Willowy]

I got an at-least-a-year-old BP from an ad on craigslist, from a girl who couldn't keep him. She had had him for 9 months, and of course he was at least 3 months old when she got him from Petco, and who knows how long he had been there! Anyway, he weighed 100 grams when I got him. . .I went straight to the privately owned pet shop to get some frozen rat pups and the snake guy refused to believe that he was a year old because he was selling hatchlings bigger than that. But why would she lie? Plus his tank was dirty enough to not have been cleaned for 9 months .

I think he was just underfed. So the same for your guy. I've had Leonard for a year and he's about 800 grams now. He's not a very consistent eater; he could be even bigger if he'd eat every week. So your guy will catch up too. It's a good sign that he ate for you so soon. Just keep up with the 10%-15% feedings every 5-7 days and he'll be fine.