What really is the drive as a "python breeder" today

[Warren_Booth]

So, I have been out of ball pythons for nearly 15 years and recently came back for some egg hatching fun. In recent months I have taken myself off all boa related facebook pages (I am primarily a CA boa guy), but have joined a couple of ball python ones for fun. Yesterday I saw one of the most concerning posts I have seen in a long time, and one that really epitomized the ball python hobby I feel. It was a clutch or two of eggs from a morph, and a note to state that that they were waiting on 5 more females to lay that had all been bred by that male. That morph was nothing special. Nice, but not a multiple thousand dollar animal, yet it was slammed to everything they could put it to. Looking at the sales being made at shows and looking at peoples tables, I find that mentality really epitomizes the hobby right now - Breed what you have to absolutely everything you have. Make as many babies as possible, sell a few, struggle to sell the rest, drop the price, complain that people are dropping prices on other morphs you want or invested in, repeat the following year. I personally got back into ball pythons for the fun of it. Make some select pairings that will produce cool animals that I want. Sell any surplus I make from those clutches. This is not a financial driven hobby for me. It is purely fun. I see many others sadly getting into it with dollar signs in their eyes and that is it. Sad times.

Thanks for hearing my concerns/opinions

Flaming being in 3, 2, 1, go.

Warren

[Hannahshissyfix]

I don't have a huge collection and only keep and produce my favorite morphs or combos I refuse to pay insane prices for, even if they aren't the most expensive ones out there while it seems some people try to produce a little of everything to appeal to more buyers. I won't lie and say I dont intend to make some profit but really as long as I'm breaking even on cost to keep and feed them I'll be happy. So, like you it's more about the experience and possibility of helping create a beautiful combo I have been wanting. If coral glow piebalds drop from 3500 to $500 next year I'll still be thrilled to produce one to keep for myself from my pair.

[Hammertime1977]

I'm also interested.

I just entered the hobby because multi gene Ball Pythons can be had for 40-50 bucks these days. It seems to be reduced to a craigslist/kijiji hobby now for small time breeders. The big box stores even admit they only keep 1 in case of an impulse buy, but they know they can be bought at half of the price elsewhere.

Even talking to a few at the expo, they make their money on the "flavor of the month" which every hobby will always have and then they end up dumping the rest.

I see guys advertising commons / normal BP's for $20 quite often.

......................

On a side note, it seems like you're some kind of big deal. We've never crossed paths before.

If I had a limit of 7-8 feet full grown adult length, that won't bite my kids...does such a snake exist? I've been looking at Hog Isle Boa's recently, but I'm not sure the they're tame enough to be around my 7 and 4 year old boys. They love our 3 foot male ball python.

Any suggestions?

I know Cars, Sports and other fun stuff...but I'm new ish to snakes.

[MidSouthMorphs]

The people who see dollar signs coming into the hobby are out of it as quick as they get into it, they find out that it takes a lot of time and ALOT of hard work. I see people almost weekly selling off their collections on classifieds pages.

[embrit345]

I just came back after a 5 year break. I am now able to set , y self in li e to produce the morphs I once only dreamed of owning. When I left the hobby, pied and albino were arojnd £1200 in the UK a price tag I coukd never afford. Now you can get them form under £200.

I dreamt for a long time I would own a Co l let Ely white ball python and a completely black bal python. Yes, I could probably afford to just buy them now the UK , are is so horrendously low but the experience of breeding them myself is what I want xx

[Dave Green]

It all depends on your definition of a Ball Python Breeder. I know breeders that enjoy their hobby and produce a handful of clutches with specific goals in mind and I know some that produce over 100 clutches. Some don't care if they lose money as most hobbies cost money and others that want to be the next big breeder. Even though many of us have the same interest we all have different ideas on what we enjoy and how big we want to make our hobby or business. I'm a small breeder that set out to make a business that I could operate myself. I never wanted to be a big breeder with employees large overhead, etc. I'm happy with where my business is right now. I've heard some people say breeders are only in it for the money. If you love this stuff there is money to be made but if you are just interested in the money there are better ways to make it I'm sure. As a business the money is important but the real reason I do this is because I still enjoy it almost every day. I came from corporate america and I hated it by the end. I now love what I do, I don't set an alarm, I don't get dressed up, no meetings, no bosses, no employees, much less stress...you get the idea.

I've seen many come and go but that's the nature of the business. This is a market that is constantly changing and you need to adapt and think. Too many people just put snakes together and think the next step is profit. This was actually the case five years ago, you just produced and sold. Now it's different.

[MarkS]

So, I have been out of ball pythons for nearly 15 years and recently came back for some egg hatching fun. In recent months I have taken myself off all boa related facebook pages (I am primarily a CA boa guy), but have joined a couple of ball python ones for fun. Yesterday I saw one of the most concerning posts I have seen in a long time, and one that really epitomized the ball python hobby I feel. It was a clutch or two of eggs from a morph, and a note to state that that they were waiting on 5 more females to lay that had all been bred by that male. That morph was nothing special. Nice, but not a multiple thousand dollar animal, yet it was slammed to everything they could put it to. Looking at the sales being made at shows and looking at peoples tables, I find that mentality really epitomizes the hobby right now - Breed what you have to absolutely everything you have. Make as many babies as possible, sell a few, struggle to sell the rest, drop the price, complain that people are dropping prices on other morphs you want or invested in, repeat the following year. I personally got back into ball pythons for the fun of it. Make some select pairings that will produce cool animals that I want. Sell any surplus I make from those clutches. This is not a financial driven hobby for me. It is purely fun. I see many others sadly getting into it with dollar signs in their eyes and that is it. Sad times.

Thanks for hearing my concerns/opinions

Flaming being in 3, 2, 1, go.

Warren

Honestly I don't see that happening very much anymore. There was a time not that long ago when pastels and spiders were still commanding over $1000.00 each and people were buying a single mutant male and dozens of wild caught adult females trying to cash in on the insanity. There was very much a 'puppy mill' mentality at that time. I think we're seeing much less of that now and hobbyists are being more discriminating with what they are breeding today. I think it shows too in the quality of the morphs you can find today. Most 'average' pastels you see today are much brighter colored with cleaner more well defined lines then even a $1000.00 animal from 15 years ago.

[stickyalvinroll]

The puppy mill mindset is out. Since the prices are so low these days and demand is also lowered, people are driven to provide really good quality animals so they can sell

[Warren_Booth]

I would argue that the puppy mill mindset is out. At the recent Arlington NARBC show, I saw one table with 15 scalelesshead animals. None sold. The year previous, a friend told me they saw a different breeder do the same thing. Not two or three clutches from a male, but 7 or 8 clultches from that male. Breed it to death to recoup their investment. Not considering that by flooding the market the value of your animal just dropped over 1000% in one year. Again, I saw it just yesterday with another animal. While we all want this not to be the case, I think many are blinkered to the actual truth that is out there. It does not bother me as I am not in this for any financial gain. If I can cover my animals costs, then I am more than happy. Heck, I often trade everything I produce.

Warren

[bcr229]

The people paying a lot for the latest greatest morph are likely trying to recoup the cost in one or two breeding seasons. I don't think that's very bright, but maybe it's because I run a business where ROI on a capital expense can be five or more years. Also the value of that capital equipment doesn't crater as fast as a ball python morph does either...

Personally I breed for my own enjoyment, and more species than ball pythons. While they comprise most of my collection the majority are pets and will never be bred. The most BP females I've paired up in any one season is four.

Next year one of my retic pairs and my Tarahumara boa pair will be ready to breed, and everything else will have the season off due to lack of incubator and hatchling rack space. The year after that a pair of my Savu pythons should be ready to go, so I will probably pair one or two ball python females and BRB's since the incubator and hatchling racks will be running anyway.