Heart Questions

[Dreamsavvy]

Hello all! I actually joined this forum to ask about this particular topic but I got distracted by all the awesome photos. I'm looking forward to exploring this site more!

I just purchased a piebald python. I don't want to make it very long so I'll try to relay this story with some brevity. I got her from a pet store - a large chain pet store. Now typically as an animal enthusiast I stick away from pet stores. Certainly know that I did a fair amount of research on the breeder and that particular snake before deciding to purchase her. What concerned me most was how skinny she was. Then I discover, after looking at her feeding history, that it was probably little to do with her being a picky eater and more to do with the pet store employees not knowing how to feed snakes. (ie - try to feed her during shed, or if she didn't take in the first 30 seconds put her back and try again the following week). She didn't eat in December, she ate once in January, nothing in February, 3 times in March, and once in April before I bought her. She's under a year old.

Well, I just had an unpleasant vet visit. The strange thing is, it's things that I have heard before numerous times. I have sat through the same vet conversation with different animals my entire life. Heart murmur, heart problems, enlarged heart, shortened life, daily treatment. Each animal has lived a fine life with and without further heart trouble.

Here is where I'm a little confused - I fed my snake Friday, and her vet appointment was today Monday. We asked "Is it possible that since we just recently fed her her heart is large for digestion?" The vet said their hearts do not enlarge. And that raised some red flags - that pythons organs increase during digestion is fact, right?

Could it be possible that with her poor feeding regimen in the past, that feeding her now could cause an increase in heart size to promote digestion?

I'm not looking to be sugar coated or go against a vet, not at all. I'm just wondering if anyone has had similar experiences, can shed light on the python heart thing, or has had snakes with heart disease before.

[Megg]

I have no experience with this, but I hope you get your answer soon (bump!)

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[Snoopyslim]

Very odd...I don't know anything about the organs enlarging but find this strange.

Has your python ate since you got it? How long have you had it now? Will the vet benefit by saying it has a heart issue? I wouldn't do anything...if the animal has a heart problem that is a genetic thing and cannot be controlled in my opinion I would just let it live a happy life?

Hope he/she is just fine and has eaten for you, if it doesn't seem sick I would not be concerned.

[JodanOrNoDan]

I ran across this article when I was researching another subject. I think there is a good chance your vet does not know what he is talking about. This article is about Burmese pythons however I believe it will be of help to you. It does mention the enlargement of the organs during digestion including the heart.

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/211/24/3767

[Coluber42]

The article Jordanornodan linked to is from 2008; meaning, relatively recent and a vet who normally sees cats and dogs and guinea pigs may well not have heard about it, or maybe saw something aboout that but remembers it only vaguely, etc. In any case, I wouldn't worry. As far as I know, no one does heart valve transplants, pacemakers, etc, for snakes. If yours does have a heart murmur, what would you do about it? I'd just chalk it up to being young, freaked out, possibly still digesting, or just plain error on the vet's part. Heart murmur or no, all you can really do is try to provide her with the best life you can, whether it's for five years or thirty.

[Jvmun]

It also comes down to what kind of enlargement if pythons hearts do enlarge when they feed.

Is it due to hypertrophy or huperplasia? I would go for another visit to try to rule out the feeding enlargment if that is factual. Or get a second opinion.

[Dreamsavvy]

She ate last Friday and Yesterday (Tuesday). 1 hopper both times, though I tried to give her 3. Still learning her eating habits. I think the herptivite has too strong of a smell 'cause even very lightly or internally placed she wouldn't take those fuzzy hoppers. I thought the vitamins would be good since she was malnourished. She had no problem eating the 1 without. She seems okay, her tank is warm and I have a humidifier next to her, her skin is starting to look better though her next shed will tell.

I think what my bf and I are gonna do is give it a few months, make sure she's eating and happy, get her a little meatier to normal weight, then take her to another vet visit. If there is still a heart problem, then there is. We're good pet owners and animal lovers and she'll have a good life with us however long that might be.

The vet said we'd be looking at multiple daily oral medications. I think that compromises a quality of life thing and can be traumatic. I wouldn't go in that direction.

Yea there were a couple red flags with this vet, I will probably get a second opinion in a few months. They told me she was very weak. She does have a gentle touch, but I remember.... I lived in Tucson, AZ for a while and there are a lot of reptile enthusiasts there. We bought a couple books from local reptile stores and breeders on different types of snakes and the guy who literally wrote the book on the boa constrictor worked as a Reptile Specialist, a vet, in Tucson. He became our primary for our snakes. I tremendous being scared about muscle weakness in our last Ball Python. He took his pinky finger put it just above the anal scales and lifted her up. She coiled and coiled herself upwards to wrap around more. He said "When a snake can't do this, they fall or can't continue to lift themselves, that's muscle weakness. As long as they can do this you're okay." My new little piebald, malnourished as she is, can do that no problem, multiple times.

I'll post some pictures soon. Thanks guys so much for all the comments (I'm still working on a name for her!)

[stickyalvinroll]

Lol petco sells pieds now?

[piedpipper]

Never heard of heart problems in snakes but like others said theres nothing really to be done about it even if there was. Depending on how big your snake is currently hoppers may be way too small of an item for it. How much does she weigh? You should feed something the same size as the widest part of her body. Especially if you're trying to get her to gain weight.

[bks2100]

I think what my bf and I are gonna do is give it a few months, make sure she's eating and happy, get her a little meatier to normal weight, then take her to another vet visit. If there is still a heart problem, then there is. We're good pet owners and animal lovers and she'll have a good life with us however long that might be.

How are they determining the heart is enlarged? Are x-rays typical of a first check up for a snake? I haven't had to take a snake to the vet yet, but I've done chameleons and a bunch of dogs, they only take x-rays if there's a reason and it's not a minuscule fee to do it, so I don't even want to unless there's a point. I'd just treat her like normal until she shows otherwise. Stores like where you got her from are (generally) pretty terrible in terms of how well they take care of their animals, I would blame most things on the stress and treatment she went through there before thinking that there's some issue that needs to be treated.

Lol petco sells pieds now?

Petsmart does, they're actually not too terribly priced sometimes either. I think I saw someone post a picture of a pied female for 300 or 350 (of course I'd question the sexing).