Trying to breed small scale

[BlueMoonExotics]

I have 3 rats that I hand raised from large pinky/small fuzzy size (long story). Unfortunately, they all turned out to be females. I was hoping one would turn out to be male so I could produce some feeders for my ball python hatchlings. Since I didn't get any males, I held onto them anyway and they have been treated as pets until I could get a male to put with them. I procrastinated a bit because I had a lot going on but recently (over a year later) I had an opportunity to get a male about weaned size and I attempted to introduce him to my girls. They did NOT take well to him at ALL. I had to reach in and scoop him out or they surely would have killed him.

I was told that females are accepting of males but not to other females so I had someone double check and he was for sure a male. So what happened? Why were they so aggressive with him? Am I able to introduce any males or will they attack any males I put in with them now that they are older? Someone has told me maybe I should try with a fully grown adult male but I don't want to try it if another fight is going to break out. They are normally very sweet otherwise but when I put him in they were all over him and even attacking each other in the confusion. It was like total chaos! Any help is much appreciated. I'm sure someone on here can probably pinpoint my problem.

[JudeWriley]

Speaking from the "pet rat" perspective, two things you didn't do properly:

1) You need to do proper introductions. You can't just plop a few rats who are new to each other together an expect them to get along. Your girls have already established their own social order in the year they've been together, so they're pretty chill with each other. You basically added a wild card, something they've never seen before and they were naturally suspicious (and aggressive). You'll want to google "how to introduce pet rats" for more information, but any of the reputable pet rat forums will have guides, information and discussion on how to do introductions (just don't mention you're breeding).

The basics of introductions involve having everyone meet in a neutral area (so that the established rats don't feel they have to defend their territory) doing something together like either facing an inconvenience - like a bathtub that's been partly filled with water - or a centrally placed plate with food in it. You watch for aggression but the general idea is "no blood, no foul" - if they're not getting injured or showing the tell-tale signs of heavy distress don't butt in. Rats are really more complex than they seem, so it can take a bit for everyone to get used to everyone else. Sometimes it can take several lengthy introduction sessions to get everyone happy and productive again.

Also, since you raised them from such a young age to now, they may not even know "how" to be rats. If they didn't have other older rats to learn from, they have learned their mannerisms and behaviors from winging it with each other and from watching you. That chaos you saw could have been the confusion that resulted from meeting another rat outside their experience. So introductions in your case may last longer than normal.

2) A just weaned rat is too young to be introduced to anyone older than they are. You need to wait until the little guy is at least 8 weeks before it'll be safe enough for him to hold his own. Yeah, males are sexually mature at 5 weeks, but they aren't big enough to defend themselves from any serious attack (or even just rough play) from another rat, especially three that are a year old. You'll need to wait a few weeks until he's bigger, or you can try again with an older male rat (though you'll still need to do introductions).

In general, rats are accepting of other rats. It's easiest when they grow up together, but with patient and proper introductions you can usually get any rat to at least tolerate any other rat.

One other thing to mention, while females can get pregnant at any age, it's usually a lot more dangerous for them after 18 months of age. Also, that's when you see a noticeable drop in litter size as well. So those girls are a few months away from reaching the end of their useful breeding lives, which you should consider.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

When introducing the important thing to keep in mind is to introduce a male that is similar in size as your females, if he is much smaller he will be bullied.

You can introduce any male based on that simple concept, you still need to remember that it can get a little rough even when rotating animals that know each other and have been together previously there will be some roughness, there is just a line between rough and dangerous to the point where the animal is in danger.

[BlueMoonExotics]

Ok, thank you both for your advice. I really only researched about how to hand raise them and how to properly feed and care for them but I guess I got a bit lazy when it came to learning how to introduce new rats and I took someone elses word who breeds them and assumed they knew what they were talking about. Hind sight is 20/20 and I should have looked into it better. Thank you for not bashing me (even though I probably deserved it).

I started with a weaned male because I had read they were able to reproduce at that age so I took that as it was ok to introduce them that small. I wasn't aware they had to be the same size but after the introduction went bad, I started to think maybe that was the reason or maybe he still smelled like Mom because he was so young. These are the first (live) rats I've ever had so I'm still learning. I hadn't thought about them not knowing how to be rats because they were hand raised. They do quite well in their little group and groom and care for each other but I guess it's true that they might not learn everything without having a mentor like themselves to guide them.

I know they are getting older now and about to stop being breeders but I did want to get at least 1 litter out of each girl to carry on with a breeding group before they went back to being strictly pets. It's ok if they don't produce big litters. I really only need a few (just enough to do a very small colony). I put a lot of effort and love into these girls and when they are gone, I would like to have THEIR babies if that makes sense. I know that may sound dumb but they are no longer "just" feeders for me.

[BlueMoonExotics]

When introducing the important thing to keep in mind is to introduce a male that is similar in size as your females, if he is much smaller he will be bullied.

You can introduce any male based on that simple concept, you still need to remember that it can get a little rough even when rotating animals that know each other and have been together previously there will be some roughness, there is just a line between rough and dangerous to the point where the animal is in danger.

Where would you consider that line to be? As I stated, these are my first ever pet rats, and these 3 get along great so I've never really seen a lot of roughness between them. They will sometimes pin each other down to groom and you might get a few small squeaks but never anything really loud like I heard when the little guy was introduced. It's times like these I wish I spoke rat!

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Where would you consider that line to be? As I stated, these are my first ever pet rats, and these 3 get along great so I've never really seen a lot of roughness between them. They will sometimes pin each other down to groom and you might get a few small squeaks but never anything really loud like I heard when the little guy was introduced. It's times like these I wish I spoke rat!

If you start seeing some gash it's usually a good indicator.

Females can be rough and in this case they just ganged up on him being the new one, just keep an eye on him they should and will accept him.

[BlueMoonExotics]

Ok thanks! Next time I'll introduce a bigger male and do it slowly with only 1 female at a time in a neutral area that is new to both and go from there. Hopefully I'll have better luck.

[Marrissa]

I've been breeding for about two years now. I've been working with my lines for a while. I always move them around different tubs without problems. I've never had any issues with just plopping them in a new tub. Might be a bit of squeaking for a few min but no one gets hurt. It's all body language and noise. Big bluffers. If anyone hurt another they'd be snake food quick.

The only thing I don't do is add any new rats to a tub that has babies.

[BlueMoonExotics]

I've been breeding for about two years now. I've been working with my lines for a while. I always move them around different tubs without problems. I've never had any issues with just plopping them in a new tub. Might be a bit of squeaking for a few min but no one gets hurt. It's all body language and noise. Big bluffers. If anyone hurt another they'd be snake food quick.

The only thing I don't do is add any new rats to a tub that has babies.

I will try again with a different approach. If it doesn't work, they will just remain as pets for the remainder of their lives. I've hand raised them and I am attached to them now more as pets than breeders. It's a bit easier to feed off rats that you only look at as feeders and I have fed live before. I just wouldn't be able to do it with these 3 as they are special to me.

[Marrissa]

No I understand. I have retired females that I keep just as nanny rats because I'm attached. I put newly weaned females with them so they can teach them manners and friendliness. Just saying for breeding purposes, if introductions are such big trouble, they might not be the best breedings stock. But they're year old females so I wouldn't breed them anyways. Why not keep the three of them in one cage as pets and pick up some weaned females from a local feeder breeder?