Supers and ALS genes

[BlueMoonExotics]

I've read on this forum before (but can't seem to find it now) that you cannot have more than 2 genes in the same complex in a single snake. For example, you can't have a yellowbelly, granite, specter. I was just wanting to confirm that this is true? I saw today an auction for a snake that is a GHI BEL and the pairing is apparently pairing was GHI Mojo X Lesser. If this is the case, then is it possible for those 3 genes to be there in one snake? I'm just curious, not trying to jump on anyone or their auctions.

[Chkadii]

Here's a super high level explanation.

If you think about a DNA strand as a curled ladder, a locus is a rung of the ladder. Alleles make up two halves of a rung. Mojave as a morph is one allele, or one half of a rung. Mojaves, mystics, specials, lessers, russos, etc. are all allelic, otherwise known as being part of the same "complex" that makes blue eyed leucistics.

So for mojave lesser BELs, that means the morphs both occupy the same rung. There's only two parts to a rung/locus, so nothing else can fit there. That means Mystic and special genes wouldn't have any room, and therefore not be part of that snake's morph combination. If a super lesser was paired to a mystic potion, some would be lesser mystics, some would be lesser mojaves, but there would never be a lesser mojave mystic.

GHI is not allelic, or part of the same complex, as mojaves etc. It sits on a different rung. That allows it to be present in BEL hatchlings, even if one of the rungs is full.

The mojave lesser BEL GHI would have DNA that looks something like this, where each line is a locus/rung:

(Allele) - (Allele)
Mojave - Lesser
Unknown - Unknown
Unknown - GHI

Keep in mind that even though some snakes look very similar, the genes could be very different. Even though fires and sulfurs make a white snake when combined (they are allelic to each other), they are not part of the mojave/blue eyed leucistic complex. Instead, fires are part of the black eyed leucistic complex. So you could also have a mojave lesser fire, because fire is on a different locus.

Yellow belly, gravel* (not granite), spector, spark, etc. are part of the super stripe complex.

Black pastel, cinnamon, het. Red axanthics are part of the 8-ball complex.

It applies to recessives too: Albino, candy, and toffee are part of the albino complex - but not lavender albino because it's not compatible with albinos or candys.

Hope this helps!

[BlueMoonExotics]

I guess I misunderstood then in thinking that mojave and GHI were in the same complex (the GHI lesser LOOKS so much like a snake that would be a super). That makes better sense then. So it is true that you can't have more than 2 genes from the same complex together, it's just that GHI is not allelic with Mojave or Lesser. Basically this snake as an example is a super (Mojo x Lesser) with GHI being an extra gene if I'm understanding this correctly?

[Chkadii]

You got it! As long as there aren't more than two allelic genes on the same locus, the sky is the limit with the number of morphs in a snake. So you could theoretically have a mojave lesser GHI fire yellow belly banana enchi cinnamon calico pastel... etc.; it's just extremely unlikely to hit on that many morphs in a single snake.

You could also have more than one super/ALS in a snake if they're from two different complexes, such as a super pastel ivory. All hatchlings will be pastel yellow bellys. You just couldn't get a super pastel ivory specter, because specter is in the yellow belly complex.

[BlueMoonExotics]

Thanks so much for explaining! I am usually pretty good with a lot of morphs but I know now that I need to do a little more research on the different complexes. Gives me some homework to keep myself busy and interested

[OhhWatALoser]

Heres some study material for ya http://www.owalreptiles.com/complexes.php

[BlueMoonExotics]

I don't see GHI on that list. Has GHI proven to be allelic with anything? I assumed too quickly that it was allelic with the BEL complex because of the wild looking snakes it makes when mixed with them but that's obviously not the case. Thanks so much for the list!

[OhhWatALoser]

Ghi hasnt been proven with anything I know of

[goddessbaby]

Here's a super high level explanation.

If you think about a DNA strand as a curled ladder, a locus is a rung of the ladder. Alleles make up two halves of a rung. Mojave as a morph is one allele, or one half of a rung. Mojaves, mystics, specials, lessers, russos, etc. are all allelic, otherwise known as being part of the same "complex" that makes blue eyed leucistics.

So for mojave lesser BELs, that means the morphs both occupy the same rung. There's only two parts to a rung/locus, so nothing else can fit there. That means Mystic and special genes wouldn't have any room, and therefore not be part of that snake's morph combination. If a super lesser was paired to a mystic potion, some would be lesser mystics, some would be lesser mojaves, but there would never be a lesser mojave mystic.

GHI is not allelic, or part of the same complex, as mojaves etc. It sits on a different rung. That allows it to be present in BEL hatchlings, even if one of the rungs is full.

The mojave lesser BEL GHI would have DNA that looks something like this, where each line is a locus/rung:

(Allele) - (Allele)
Mojave - Lesser
Unknown - Unknown
Unknown - GHI

Keep in mind that even though some snakes look very similar, the genes could be very different. Even though fires and sulfurs make a white snake when combined (they are allelic to each other), they are not part of the mojave/blue eyed leucistic complex. Instead, fires are part of the black eyed leucistic complex. So you could also have a mojave lesser fire, because fire is on a different locus.

Yellow belly, gravel* (not granite), spector, spark, etc. are part of the super stripe complex.

Black pastel, cinnamon, het. Red axanthics are part of the 8-ball complex.

It applies to recessives too: Albino, candy, and toffee are part of the albino complex - but not lavender albino because it's not compatible with albinos or candys.

Hope this helps!

This is the best explanation i've read.

[bondo]

I don't see GHI on that list. Has GHI proven to be allelic with anything? I assumed too quickly that it was allelic with the BEL complex because of the wild looking snakes it makes when mixed with them but that's obviously not the case. Thanks so much for the list!

There is a super form but it is not allelic with anything.