Maternal incubation, time to worry?

[Hiddenagenda]

Background: So, I'm new to the whole breeding process, and I wasn't aware that a clutch was on the way. In hindsight, I can see now that there were plenty of signs.

Here's my concern: Since I was unaware that the eggs were coming and I didn't find them until 1-3 days after they were laid, I decided to go with maternal incubation. Well, mom (Eva), has been coiled around all of the eggs except for one, which she has decided to lay on top of. I'd say we're only 7-10 days into this process, and I'm looking for any input.

I have a chunk of sphagnum moss that I keep moist in the front of her cage. I haven't been able to check on the rest of the eggs because she has remained tightly coiled around them, however according to a hygrometer the RH stays between 75% and 85% humidity. I check her temperature with an infrared thermometer and she has been staying right around 84 degrees. She is housed in a RhinoRaxx setup and her thermostats are set between 85 and 87 degrees (I have a high and low setup to prevent injury in case of a failure).

Now that that's out of the way, my main concern is the smushed egg (I understand this thread is worthless without a picture. I'm working on that now.) I can't tell if there is a lack of humidity in the cage that's causing some of the dimpling or if it's simply the weight of the mother that's the cause. As mentioned before, I'm completely new to this and I welcome any and all input.

http://imgur.com/vsWYwQP
http://imgur.com/Z8jAhQ8

[dr del]

I don't think that egg looks too bad to be honest.

I have never tried maternal incubation but hopefully bumping this up will catch the attention of someone who has.

[Hiddenagenda]

I hope you're right, and thanks for the bump. Hopefully some more people will chime and share their thoughts/experiences.

[Albert Clark]

I know you want to try maternal incubation but honestly you are risking the survivability of the eggs. The humidity is too low and there is too much of a fluctuation in ambient temps inside of a tub. Unless you secure those eggs from her and get a incubator overnighted to you I believe it's going to be hard to make it work. Order a bator and have it overnighted. You can order one on Amazon! Those eggs look like they are healthy right now too but the early dimpling is a sign of inadequate temps and mostly humidity. Good luck. You still have time to correct the situation. Keep us posted.

[Alicia]

Keep in mind, I'm not an expert.

The egg looks a little smooshed, although I can't tell if it's because of the way of the way the mom is sitting on it, the humidity level, or both -- as the egg is partially exposed. Is it continuing to worsen, or has it stabilized? If it stabilizes, it's likely okay.

Your humidity is actually fine for MI, provided the mother is tightly coiled. She will create an appropriate environment to the best of her ability. Temp is a little low. That said, there's been a guy on here who runs (or ran) an ambient temp set-up at like 85 degrees F, and did MI at those temperatures. When I tried MI, I kept the mom's warm end in the mid-upper 80s. Her body acts as a buffer against ambient temperature fluctuations, within reason. At 84 degrees, I'd guess . . . pipping around day 65-70. Provided you stick with this as is.

Newspaper is not great. I'd worry about it drawing too much moisture from the eggs on the one hand, or becoming too water-logged from added moisture. Either will kill eggs, but the latter will kill them quicker. It's easier for eggs to come back from too little moisture than from being soaked. However, I've seen photos of clutches incubated on newspaper hatching fine. It's doable.

If you do decide to keep running with MI, wet substrate is almost the main thing to watch out for. The goal is to give her that 75-85% RH without wet substrate. Like I say, as far as clutch humidity goes, the female can generally do the rest. So, the moss set back from her is clever.

Other than that, assuming you're still giving MI a try, keep mom as quiet as possible, especially if she's nervous. Think about setting up an incubator, just in case. It can be as simple as a cooler with a UTH, a little stand for an egg tub (to keep it off the heating element), a thermostat, and a thermometer. And medium, obviously. Depending on what you have around the house, you can through together a simple incubator in under an hour. Two hours if you have to run out to Lowes or whatever.

But MI is easier than people make it sound. It does just take a little planning. There's a great sticky near the top of this forum. Again, the newspaper is the biggest down side I see to your current setup -- but what's done is done and, at a week in, I would NOT change it. Do monitor it for wetness. Monitor the eggs for changes. If they appear to have stablized, you're probably in good shape.

[tacticalveterinarian]

Honestly, the moss looks quite dry and the exposed egg appears dry as well. I would recommend lightly/gently spraying the female with a mister and making sure the moss inside the cage is damp. I've incubated several clutches via maternal incubation and it's always incredible to witness! Best of luck and I hope the eggs produce healthy babies in the near future!

[Hiddenagenda]

I just wanted to provide you all with an update. Seven out of the eight eggs have produced snakes. Three of them are still pipping (two of them have their heads out and the third one is still hiding, however bubbles can be seen within the egg) and the other four are happily moving about. Honestly, I was very surprised that that many of the babies survived. Here is what I learned and what I changed to make it all happen. As previously stated in another post, the newspaper was a bad a idea. It was very hard to keep it keep moderately moist. Since this was the first time I ever dealt with a clutch, I didn't heed the warning signs and I was ill prepared. I also learned that maybe I'm not cut out for the whole breeding thing as I was extremely anxious and over thinking everything. It was difficult for me to figure out why the egg that is visible in the picture I posted was so crushed. I wasn't sure if it was caused by a lack of humidity or if the mom simply crushed the egg (In the end I think mom just crushed the egg). I'm sure you could all guess that that's the one that didn't make it. So, since the mother stayed tightly coiled on the eggs in the beginning, and I never once saw her loosen her coil, I decided to add more humidity to the cage by wetting the moss. I changed out the moss a few times to prevent it from developing mold. I slowly added more moisture each day until I saw mom loosen up a bit and expose some of the other eggs. Now that I could see the other eggs, I could tell that the humidity level was sufficient as all of the other eggs only had slight dimpling, if any at all. I have left the cage somewhat damp so the babies can easily adjust and to also help them with their first shed. After reading some of the initial responses I added a bit more heat to the cage and set the thermostat at 89 degrees. This kept mom's temperature around 87 degrees.

I want to sincerely thank those of you that chimed in.