Viv decor lowering the heat

[eddie-head]

Hi All,

apologies if this has been asked/answered before but my google searches have failed and maybe im searching for the wrong words/phrases but has anyone had any experience of vivarium decor lowering the ambient air temps?

recently set up a new viv for a royal that's going up in the world and as I'm planning on a nice display piece I thought I'd throw in some fake vines/leaves etc to 1) give him a little screening and 2) to look better than all brown

set up everything as per - substrate, two hides, a nice big root for rubbing/hiding/climbing etc - and got the heat going. had a nice average 88/89F hot end and 81/82 cool end at bang on 50% humidity

started setting up the fake vines/leaves all nice and pretty and closed the door back off to get the heat back up but the hot side wouldn't go any higher than about 85, and the cool side went down to 78! I thought I'd maybe knocked something out, turned something off etc but checked everything over and it's all as it was pre plants. I've even tested on 3 different temp probes.

I don't wanna just whack the habistat up to 92 in order to raise the air temps, as they are fine without the plants. In fact I've taken all that decor back out and we're now sitting back on 88HS 82CS. Has anyone else had this issue? If so there must be a solution as I've seen plenty of vivs set up with fake plants in there

[George1994]

I highly doubt that adding decor to the tank would change the temp of it that much. If you are really looking that far into it I guess that at first the heat source would have to work harder due to the flow of warm air to the cold surface of the plants, heating them up. But once they are at the same temp as ambient I don't think it would have top work much harder at all. Maybe others have experienced a similar thing an I am wrong, this is all me thinking off the top of the head.

[Velrys]

Hmm...

Generally I agree, once the stuff you add gets up to temp you should be sitting at the same temp.

But...

Do you use a mister or anything that adds moisture to the viv? Maybe the increased surface area is allowing for more evaporation which is bringing the temp down?

Plastic doesn't hold onto heat well, if you are using bulbs/CHEs (ceramic heating element) to provide heat from above maybe its bouncing off the plastic rather than sinking into the substrate?

You say "the hot end" which leads me to believe you are using a pair of bulbs/CHEs to make a temp gradient in the tank. Perhaps by using top heat to produce an ambient temp in the entire tank and a UTH(under tank heater) to provide a hotspot in the hide you can mitigate this issue. In general I would recommend this approach rather than relying solely on top heat. You can end up really cooking the top of your hide trying to get the inside to 90.

By adding earthenware decor, rocks, hides, water dishes, etc. you could maybe impart more heat retention into your tank to offset the apparent issue the plastic is giving you... I would say swap the plastic out for real plants but they wouldnt last one night in a tank with a BP.

As a side note your problem, I think, points to the fact you are not using a thermostat? I would HIGHLY recommend using a thermostat to regulate your hotspot temp as fluctuations here can quickly stress your snake.

hope this helps, keep us posted, oddities like this are really interesting

[eddie-head]

I'll give the plants another go later tonight. Personally I didn't think that they would affect anything at all but the probes say otherwise. Once it's set back up and I've left it overnight I'll give it another check in the morning

To answer the other questions:

1) No mister. The humidity is bang on 50% with just the water in the dish
2) CHE for heat. The viv is for a (currently) small snake so there's only one in there which initially at least gave out enough heat to get the hot/cold variance with no issues. I've been advised against the mat with royals as trying to use that inside the viv can apparently create potential problems with larger bodied snakes. If the need arises I'll readdress
3) The CHE is in the "hot end" 3rd of the tank, plants were put in the other side, so no plant was under the CHE - mention this because I assume that even if the plants were reflecting heat they wouldn't be reflecting a great deal away from the substrate
4) CHE is on a habistat pulse proportional and the temp settings on that are at about 90, so once the ambient air temp hits the "hot side" probe underneath the air registers around 88

Will keep updated

[RoyalRegius]

Forget what you heard about BPs not needing mats. That's flat out false.

Belly heat is the undisputed standard when it comes to a hot spot. Balls don't want a 'basking spot'

[eddie-head]

Forget what you heard about BPs not needing mats. That's flat out false.

Belly heat is the undisputed standard when it comes to a hot spot. Balls don't want a 'basking spot'

Not that I'm saying you're wrong - and not to say that all people who agree with the heat mat way is wrong either - but I've had so many bits of contradicting advice when it comes to viv setup for BPs. And it confused me so much that I basically observed the local reptile shop's BPs and asked them how to set up my viv in the same way. Advice I got was to forget heat mats and stick with ceramic for a variety of reasons, and there's plenty of other advice that mimics that so I'll see how it goes

I'm not using the ceramic to create any kind of basking or hot "spot" (at least, not intentionally) I'm using the ceramic to create the temperature gradient from 88 down to 82, which is what I have now

PS - I think in my haste and enthusiasm I simply mucked up the habistat probe a bit, as I have the plants back in and we're cruising at the 88 > 82 gradient I had pre plants. So happy days and lets not talk about my incompetence to put bloody plants in a viv...

[George1994]

I have q ceramic heater and a mat in my adult males viv. It gets pretty cold here deep in winter and my house has awful heat retention, so it was a must. I feel good knowing that the ceramic element heats the air and provides gradient, and the mat provides a hotspot and belly heat.