trying to see some 'penes

[kitn]

so i'm a newb trying to learn as much as i can and prepare myself to hopefully within the next year to two to start breeding. i'm in the process of building myself a rack and making plans to isolate a small room for regulating temps. i feel like i'm getting all my ducks in a row except one detrimental thing..... with all my practicing over the months, i still have been unable to successfully pop any of my balls. I currently have two females and three males. i know the males are males, the breeder popped them in front of me, ive had sperm shed come from one of the males, i NEED to know how to sex the snakes if i'm going to breed. i cant just rely on other people to do it for me or just assume someone is telling me the truth about the snake. tonight was the closest i had ever gotten to popping them but i'm still not seeing any hemipenes. i've watched numerous videos for sexing and try a couple times a month..... maybe i'm not squeezing the tail hard enough? should i give up before i hurt the snakes and just opt for using probes? i heard that it is very easy to damage a snakes reproductive parts with a probe if you don't know what you're doing....
i know that generally males have longer skinnier tails? but that's not a definitive enough tell for me.
so this is what i'm doing.
i place my thumb on the cloaca scale and pull back so i see the pink. i place my thumb about a thumbs width from the cloaca and roll my thumb up towards the cloaca. i've gotten to the point with one of the males where i saw little lumps for the hemipenes but they didn't pop out like they did when the breeder did it for me.

any advice would be greatly appreciated. i'm getting pretty discouraged.
i feel like i should mention that my females are both around 2 yrs old. the males are 2 that are about a year and one that is probably around 8 months.

[treachery]

I'm new at breeding but not at owning ball pythons, as I got my first one back in 98. It also took me a while to get it down but once you do it's as easy as anything. The biggest issues I've come across would be that larger males tend to "fight" if you will the popping process by holding those penes back. Some males are extremely good at this, so it can be more difficult with them. Another issue is small penes. Just like humans some males are blessed with a tree trunk while others get a branch so if it's penes are small it may be difficult to see them popping out. That being said I would just practice more, I know you said you watch videos, but if you haven't watched Ralph Davis do it I would recommend his video cause he makes it simple(that's who's video I watched over and over to get it down) I left a link of two of his video's the second one I like cause he pops a small and a large male. Hope this was helpful and good luck with your future projects!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMqN402TiVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPmIpc_gP9I

[kitn]

Yes that's one of the videos I saw. Was actually holding my snake and doing it along with him but no penes I'll just keep practicing. It's Ni en knowing it's something that is actually kind of difficult hot for people starting out. I was starting to feel dumb.

[treachery]

Yes that's one of the videos I saw. Was actually holding my snake and doing it along with him but no penes I'll just keep practicing. It's Ni en knowing it's something that is actually kind of difficult hot for people starting out. I was starting to feel dumb.

We're all dumb ....and learn from each other, but we can't do it unless we are willing to put ourselves out there.

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You'll get there I'm certain!!!!!!!

[kitn]

Thanks