Ball Python Non-Color/Pattern Genetic Differences

[DLawIII]

I've been searching around the forum trying to learn the differences between various genetic mutations not related to color and pattern. I know some of the morphs have some interesting physical characteristics and issues. I think it would be helpful to have a list so people can make an informed decision before purchasing some of these animals or making a decision to breed.

I'm interested in things like size, temperament, fertility, clutch size, eating issues, life-span, and neurological issues. I'm sure there are many non-color/pattern characteristics between the various morphs that I'm missing. This list isn't meant to be scientific in any way but just some observational data. Here's what I've gathered so far... Please chime in with your observations. Pictures and links are great! Thanks you.

Sub-Saharan Locality - Larger than average size, large clutch size
Spider - Head wobble
Super Cinnamon - Duckbill shaped nose, higher prevalence of spine kinks

I know there are a lot more. What trends have you noticed?

[OhhWatALoser]

Well here is your issues/anomolies http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

Only other thing using your list I could think of is volta region ball pythons, I know people market them as sub-saharan, but it makes no sense, sub-sahara nearly covers the entire ball python habitat range. lol

If you ask Brian from bhb he claims darker morphs tend to have undesirable temperaments, but I've even told him he is full of crap lol. Things like temperament, clutch size, eating issues, life span can all be genetic, just I highly doubt they are tied to anything we identify as a morph.

Guy around her has a female bumblebee I thought was neat looking, about 400-500 or so grams and asked how much he would take for her. He wouldn't do anything less than 1K. Asked him why the price and turns out she came from a 16 egg clutch. Any female out of that clutch are worth significantly more to a breeder. Not that you are guaranteed to have a 16 egg layer, but she should yield a high number of eggs. It sure would be a nice trait to selectively breed.

[DLawIII]

Well here is your issues/anomolies http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

Only other thing using your list I could think of is volta region ball pythons, I know people market them as sub-saharan, but it makes no sense, sub-sahara nearly covers the entire ball python habitat range. lol

Great info thank you. I'm going to update the first post with the information from that OWAL Reptiles link you sent me.

That makes sense about the Volta v. Sub-saharan. Sub-saharan Africa is about 4/5ths of the continent! It looks like the Volta Region is small sliver of land in eastern Ghana on the border of Togo. So that's a much more specific local than "sub-saharan."

Do you think there is any truth that wild-type Ball Pythons generally reach a larger size than most of the genetic mutations?

[DLawIII]

Well here is your issues/anomolies http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

I guess I should first ask if you mind I update the first post in this thread with the information from the top table in your link? Of course linking back to your site.

[OhhWatALoser]

Do you think there is any truth that wild-type Ball Pythons generally reach a larger size than most of the genetic mutations?

I guess I should first ask if you mind I update the first post in this thread with the information from the top table in your link? Of course linking back to your site.

I just think there are more wild types out there, therefore there are more giants. I don't think wild types in general get any bigger. My Pastel and Albino are the biggest one I have ever owned. Even compared to my previous normal females. None of my animals are anything compared to the voltas tho.

and you can update with what you want, the information is for all to see. If you search back, I think I posted a table in the forum table format in some thread, if you wanna copy and paste that and add the things that have been added since then might save ya some work.

[ClarkT]

The spark gene in my collection tends to produce sperm plugs a bit earlier than expected. At 4 months old--some a bit younger--the males are producing sperm plugs.

My original sire was only 7 or 8 months old when he first bred. My Lesser Spark male started breeding around 7 months old, too.

I don't think the spark gene is the only one to do this, but it has been my experience that mine all start fairly young. I guess they're horny.

[kc261]

This is a great subject for a thread. It seems that OWAL has already done all the work for you, though, because every one I could think of, at least in the first few minutes, was listed on his page.

There are some others that are just rumors that may or may not be true. For example, I've heard that in addition to the supers, even single gene black pastel and cinnamon can have minor duckbill issues. There is a thread you may be able to find on this forum where several people reported that their single gene BP or cinnamon seemed to have a constant little bit of a whistle in their breathing. It is also worth noting that sometimes the duckbill issues in the super forms can be much more than just a duckbill...I've seen at least one picture where the entire head was badly misshapen. IIRC, that baby appeared to have survived and developed right up to just about hatching time, but was DIE when the breeder cut the egg.

Another one I used to hear a fair amount years ago, but not so much recently, is that mojaves are great eaters and fast growers. Out of the 1 mojave in my collection, that proved to be true up until about 800 grams, where she slowed down and a pastel female that I'd gotten at about the same time & size eventually caught back up to her. So it evened out in the long run.

I've also heard both that spiders are great eaters and that they are poor eaters. I suspect that the poor eaters are ones that have a severe enough wobble it affects their eating. People do report that sometimes the wobble seems worse at times of excitement or stress, and since eating can be both of those, it makes lots of sense that there might be a correlation. I've read people say that their spider has poor aim, presumably due to the wobble, and I think that could make them less confident and therefore more shy eaters. As far as why some people would say that spiders are great eaters... I have no idea.

I've also heard people say that spiders have great, loveable, goofy personalities. I suspect that this isn't so much their personality, but just a sort of personification based on the wobble. My big male spider will often end up with his entire upper end of his body upside down during handling sessions, without apparently noticing or caring. It is really easy to look at this and say that he's being a goof. It is certainly easier to think of it that way instead of thinking how sad it is that he can't tell the difference, or, perhaps even worse, he can tell the difference and it distresses him, but he just can't keep a proper orientation. I will say, he doesn't show signs of stress, so if he is experiencing any, I think it is minor.