Getting the Ball Rolling

[moorea]

And yes there was pun intended with my title. I am also sure around these parts it was not very original.

Now to the point. I am currently researching the purchase of a ball python. I owned a Burmese Python during my college days for a few years, but I have very little experience. That was 20 years ago and it seems practices have changed. Not to mention I only had him for a few years as my X ran off with him when the relationship ended.

This is something I will be doing with my 16 year old daughter. It actually is something she wants as her own pet, but as a responsible parent I am going into this knowing when she goes off to college, probably this time next year at the rate she is going, it will likely become mine and my husbands for at least 4 years if not for the life of the snake. My husband is also interested.

I really want to do all the possible research and get this right the first time. A few years back we went to petco and got a lizard for my son. A few days later it wasn't looking so good and when we started doing some research on-line it turned out everything petco sold us and told us was wrong. And I mean everything from substrate, lighting, heating, humidity, supplements, and feeding, all wrong. We had to spend a bunch of money replacing every thing, purchasing a mister etc. and we were to late, he died shortly after his upgrades were complete. Who knows it is likely that the lizard they sold us was not healthy enough to live much longer then it had even if we had done everything right in the first place. Lesson learned, petco is only for dog food and supplies you have researched first.

We live literally in the "middle of nowhere" montana, so aside from petco there are no stores that sell snakes or local dealers/beeders and no shows any where near us. I have done my fair share of internet research, but have found it difficult to find reviews of reputable ball python breeders.

We are both interested in the pied ball pythons and my daughter is also considering an albino. I don't really like the albinos nearly as much as the different pied's, but have not ruled it out. I am thinking we will end up with the pied as we both like it and I am paying for this venture.

Just a little while ago I sent emails to eclipseexotics.com and jkobylkareptiles.com. From what little I was able to find about both, they seem to have good reputations. But any additional suggestions are more then welcomed. Or of course any ones experiences with either of them.

I also have some concerns about the current pets in our home. 2 small beagles, 2 labs and 2 cats. From past experience I don't believe I have to worry about a snake getting loose and eating any of the other pets as long as it is well fed and never left to be hungry. And I think even the small beagles (25 and 29 lbs) would be a little big to interest a ball python, please correct me if I am wrong. I am however for the safety of the snake as much as the safety of the other pets in the home concerned with a set up that will be escape proof. Not sure how freaked out a snake would be if 4 dogs and 2 cats decided to gang up on him, I would imagine overwhelmed at the least.

Also I read several posts that a baby should be in a 10 to 15 gallon and an adult in a 40 gallon enclosure. I assume the smaller enclosure for the baby is for security and it would not be good to just start out with the 40. How long will the baby be in the smaller enclosure? I have a 75 gallon glass aquarium and 150 gallon acrylic aquarium. It sounds however that even if I could find a lid for either, these would be to big.

Any help or advise is appreciated!

[Reinz]

Hi Moorea, Welcome to the Forum.

i was in a similar situation. My daughter went off to school and I inherited her 9 yr old Ball at the time, three yrs ago. I had no real interest at time, but being the animal lover that I am, I have become quite attached.

As as far as the size of enclosure, I bumped him up from a 20 gal tank to a large reptile enclosure which is 40-50 gals. It has internal locks on all openings- VERY IMPORTANT!! These guys are escape artists!

As far as other family pets: my first dog , which I inherited as well, i let her hang out with me and the snake. The dog is large, a Rottweiler mix. She was excited around the snake, but I calmed her down. I let the snake crawl around on his own and he could care less about the dog. The dog is gone now, my daughter took her back.

I tried keeping the door closed to the snake's room to keep the cat out. No good. This just made the cat more curious so that whenever I opened the door, she wood shoot right in between my legs. So I leave the door open and I placed lightweight, bulky items on top of the cage so that the cat could not jump on top and then come crashing down inside.
This has worked well, no curiosity at all.

I live alone now but have family members from out of town visit regular with their dogs. I now have a dog as well. I have made the decision not to expose the snake to all of these different dogs. No need to flirt with disaster or add stress.

If you feel that you are in a stable environment that can be controlled, you may feel comfortable going another direction. As far as the snake being aggressive with you cats and dogs, no worries.

Good Luck and Enjoy!

[moorea]

Hi Moorea, Welcome to the Forum.

i was in a similar situation. My daughter went off to school and I inherited her 9 yr old Ball at the time, three yrs ago. I had no real interest at time, but being the animal lover that I am, I have become quite attached.

As as far as the size of enclosure, I bumped him up from a 20 gal tank to a large reptile enclosure which is 40-50 gals. It has internal locks on all openings- VERY IMPORTANT!! These guys are escape artists!

As far as other family pets: my first dog , which I inherited as well, i let her hang out with me and the snake. The dog is large, a Rottweiler mix. She was excited around the snake, but I calmed her down. I let the snake crawl around on his own and he could care less about the dog. The dog is gone now, my daughter took her back.

I tried keeping the door closed to the snake's room to keep the cat out. No good. This just made the cat more curious so that whenever I opened the door, she wood shoot right in between my legs. So I leave the door open and I placed lightweight, bulky items on top of the cage so that the cat could not jump on top and then come crashing down inside.
This has worked well, no curiosity at all.

I live alone now but have family members from out of town visit regular with their dogs. I now have a dog as well. I have made the decision not to expose the snake to all of these different dogs. No need to flirt with disaster or add stress.

If you feel that you are in a stable environment that can be controlled, you may feel comfortable going another direction. As far as the snake being aggressive with you cats and dogs, no worries.

Good Luck and Enjoy!

Thank you for your reply. I do plan to my best to keep the dogs away from the snake. Only because as I mentioned we literally have a pack and when one gets excited things can get a little bit crazy. My main concern in the event there is ever an escape neither the snakes or dogs getting injured. My instinct says the dogs are kind of wimpy and keep their distance, my hopes is that a snake would as well. I know my Burmese was always well fed and would not have paid much attention to a dog.

Yup, as soon as I heard "Mom I want a snake...." my husband and I discussed it and decided if we say yes it would likely be a long term commitment for us. At any rate even she takes him back after college, it is a nice family project.

I am currently considering one of the PVC cages from Animal Plastics, but if you have a link or name of the 40 to 50 gallon with locks that would be great, I can seem to find anything like it!

[CORBIN911]

Well as for snake attacking animals highly unlikely, they'll ball up and become a chew toy.. if not be hidding somewhere unknown!

As far as Tanks, scrap that idea, "You can if you'd LIKE too" but a PVC enclosure is much more escape proof then a tank (in my opinion atleast) Its just the "cost difference" from a 100$ tank to a 250$ pvc enclosure!

Another good option would be a Tub, and or a small Rack system They work very well. Snakes will Thrive in them as they are more secure and you can get small system with 3-4 levels only!

Reason i say that is you don't want your cats/dogs to walk or jump on the enclosures and pummel them around when rowdy, a nice rack system will look very clean and will give snake best bang for buck! (just no visual stimulation for humans of actual snake, thats were handling them comes in tho!) And hey you can even then get your Pied AND albino!!!! haha

Just make sure NO matter what Housing you choose to Get yourself a GOOD Thermostat... If one thing is required the most that will be it! Herpstat 1/2 or Vivarium Ve-100/200 They will be your biggest asset and biggest ease for keeping your snake happy!

So in the end housing all can make your snake happy, it just depends what you yourself will visually like.. and if youd like to expand from 1 snake (Which always happens i find, they are addicting!!! like Lays chips! cant have just one)

And as far as breeders You got good ones your looking at and will get amazing quality animals. There is Also BHB you could look at! But if you want a amazing pied, Justin is YOUR man! (good thing with pieds is i find they are more lazy calm snakes then most)

Something else you'll want to consider is Male/Female how big will you want your guy to be!

Do you want a:

Male: 1200g 4ft Snake (avg)

or

Female: 2000g+ 5-6ft Snake(avg)

Anyways no matter what decision you'll enjoy them like no other pet! they may not love us, but they sure are amazing pets to have, i spend less time cleaning/maintaining all 17 of my bigger snakes, and 25 babies, then my Mom takes care of her 70gal fish tank! always a plus with how easy they are... and NO CRICKETS(I HATED THOSE THINGS WITH MY GECKOS/BEARDIES)

Best of luck! and when you do get them Pics!!!! i do love my Pieds! best snake you'll get!

[Reinz]

Moorea, Corbin has given great information. However, the tank I described will cost about the same as the tub he described, unless you find it on sale.

I'm not going to argue tub vs tank. For I can tell you that when I let my snake out to play alone in his locked room. I find him hiding in the strangest places the next day. And trust me, he is very comfortable in what appears to be the most uncomfortable places and does Not want to be disturbed!

Thus, I know they could care less if they live in a tub or a tank. However, he is MY pet and I want to ENJOY him. That's why I prefer a tank over Tupperware. I want to walk by and glance at him or stop and observe a while. Not pop the top or slide the tub out and "possibly" disturb him.

This is what works for me. I am not trying to sway anyone. Nor am I judging tub users. Both methods are humane in my opinion as long as you are doing your job with proper husbandry and feeding.

[Reinz]

Moorea, to answer your question as to where to buy the tank. I bought my 36x18x18 at PetsMart. I believe it is an Exo Terra. It has lockable front entry doors and a lockable screen top. I think it was normally $239-249 , but I got it on sale for $199.

if you search Amazon. Com for reptile cages some Exo Terra's will show up.

I also believe there are sponsors on this site as well with enclosures. If possible please support them.

I use an ipad, so I don't know how to do links.

Hope this helps.

[dkspftw]

Seems like you're on the right track if you've already found Animal Plastics.

An Animal Plastics T8 is large enough for even a female BP for life, and probably a bit bigger than a male needs (although I'll be keeping one per enclosure myself).

As people have said above, the BP will pose no threat to your pets, only the opposite is possible. Beagles especially (as anti-pest dogs) I could see attacking a snake.

But the good news is that if you get an AP cage, you can put a lock on it. I'd highly recommend doing so. This will guarantee that nobody gets in or out, and even if a lock is practically unnecessary, as somebody else pointed out here, you know that if it is locked, your cage isn't accidentally left open or something.

I would highly recommend looking up faunaclassifieds.com BOI (board of inquiry) reviews on any reptile dealer you're considering ordering from. You'll have to create an account on faunaclassifieds to do so, but it's worth it. And I usually browse for actual snakes to buy on kingsnake.com. Once you've found something you like on there, you can look up the breeder and go ahead if you'd like.

[moorea]

Thanks again for all the replies and useful information.

The first choice we made when we decided to get a snake is Male!

So here is where I am at now.

I have decided to go with the PVC enclosure (enclosure, just sounds nicer then cage). I think the PVC enclosure is the best comprise between tub and glass, you can still view the snake, which we will very much want to do and get the benefits of easy heating and humidity. Plus the PVC enclosures have locks to avoid escapes as stated above.

I have done a ton of research. While American Plastics does come highly rated, I just can not find a single bad thing that any one had to say about Constrictors Northwest (http://www.constrictorsnw.com). All reviews for Constrictors NW are glowing, easy to clean, no warping, no discoloring good customer service. And after a long talk on the phone with Ed, I am already very happy with customer service. So I am going with 36 x 23 x 12. I am also considering a 36 x 23 x 18 just because I think it will be nicer to have the extra space and bigger opening for cleaning and maintenance. And Ed says they are escape proof so I am hoping that is correct.

I live in NW Montana and it gets very cold here. Every week we have at least a week of negative 30 degrees, sometimes colder. It is not uncommon during the winter for our house to get as low as 50 - 55 degrees. So I think I am going to go with Radiant Heat and an under tank heat system just in case it is needed. I have contacted Pro Products (http://pro-products.com) to get information on Pro Heat Radiant panels. I am fairly certain this is the way I will go once they reply.

I am still unsure what the best heating option is for under the tank, or if it is even necessary.

I did see in several posts last night that Herpstat 1/2 is the way to go. I haven't even started researching that yet, as I want to know what I will be using to heat, just RHP or RHP and Under tank so I know what I will be plugging into it.

I have done zero research on thermometers and other small stuff, but I imagine that will be fairly straight forward.

Eclipse Exotics has gotten back to me and it looks like I will not be able to get the beautiful baby I wanted.

He can be seen here: http://www.eclipseexotics.com/showanimal.cfm?id=193

She was very nice and helpful, but I will have issues in feeding him that I am hoping will not be a problem with other snakes I might find. It seems he was a difficult starter but is now feeding regularly for up to a month, misses a week and then goes back to feeding regularly. He will only eat live rat pups. I have zero problems with this and actually wanted to feed to live. The issue is the only feeders we can get locally for small snakes are frozen mice. So not only would I have to hope he will eat frozen I will have to get him to go from rats to mice and she does not know if he will.

So I am really hoping that Justin replies to the email I sent last night or I am back to square one as far breeders go.

And that is as far as I have gotten!

I am wondering if I do want to feed live and my optional for the snake while it is still only able to eat very small rodents is frozen, will I be able to switch to live after he gets to a size that he can eat bigger prey.

[CORBIN911]

Thanks again for all the replies and useful information.

The first choice we made when we decided to get a snake is Male!

So here is where I am at now.

I have decided to go with the PVC enclosure (enclosure, just sounds nicer then cage). I think the PVC enclosure is the best comprise between tub and glass, you can still view the snake, which we will very much want to do and get the benefits of easy heating and humidity. Plus the PVC enclosures have locks to avoid escapes as stated above.

I have done a ton of research. While American Plastics does come highly rated, I just can not find a single bad thing that any one had to say about Constrictors Northwest (http://www.constrictorsnw.com). All reviews for Constrictors NW are glowing, easy to clean, no warping, no discoloring good customer service. And after a long talk on the phone with Ed, I am already very happy with customer service. So I am going with 36 x 23 x 12. I am also considering a 36 x 23 x 18 just because I think it will be nicer to have the extra space and bigger opening for cleaning and maintenance. And Ed says they are escape proof so I am hoping that is correct.

I live in NW Montana and it gets very cold here. Every week we have at least a week of negative 30 degrees, sometimes colder. It is not uncommon during the winter for our house to get as low as 50 - 55 degrees. So I think I am going to go with Radiant Heat and an under tank heat system just in case it is needed. I have contacted Pro Products (http://pro-products.com) to get information on Pro Heat Radiant panels. I am fairly certain this is the way I will go once they reply.

I am still unsure what the best heating option is for under the tank, or if it is even necessary.

I did see in several posts last night that Herpstat 1/2 is the way to go. I haven't even started researching that yet, as I want to know what I will be using to heat, just RHP or RHP and Under tank so I know what I will be plugging into it.

I have done zero research on thermometers and other small stuff, but I imagine that will be fairly straight forward.

Eclipse Exotics has gotten back to me and it looks like I will not be able to get the beautiful baby I wanted.

He can be seen here: http://www.eclipseexotics.com/showanimal.cfm?id=193

She was very nice and helpful, but I will have issues in feeding him that I am hoping will not be a problem with other snakes I might find. It seems he was a difficult starter but is now feeding regularly for up to a month, misses a week and then goes back to feeding regularly. He will only eat live rat pups. I have zero problems with this and actually wanted to feed to live. The issue is the only feeders we can get locally for small snakes are frozen mice. So not only would I have to hope he will eat frozen I will have to get him to go from rats to mice and she does not know if he will.

So I am really hoping that Justin replies to the email I sent last night or I am back to square one as far breeders go.

And that is as far as I have gotten!

I am wondering if I do want to feed live and my optional for the snake while it is still only able to eat very small rodents is frozen, will I be able to switch to live after he gets to a size that he can eat bigger prey.

Bigger isnt always better, Go with the AP T8 (look here for set up http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-With-Pictures! Did an amazing job)

Aswell here for your Thermostat THIS is your BREAD AND BUTTER to owning a snake, I cannot stress enough this is the best investment you will make and 99% of users will agree (http://www.spyderrobotics.com/produc...tat1Basic.html)


Other then that I wish you luck with your snake =) and with the t8 you can use divier (while hes young to lower space=lower stress) and 1 open up as he gets to 800+ grams OR get your Albino aswell! for other side!

Good luck =)

[moorea]

Well I am starting to wonder if I will even be able to buy a snake. Every snake I have looked at is eating live. Which would be awesome if I had a source for live prey here, but like I said the only option available to me for small prey is the frozen mice. Not sure what do next. But I clearly cant buy a snake that I can't feed. I have considered breeding mice, but I really don't want to go that way. From what I have read is I will have more baby mice then the 1 snake can eat and they will grow to a size they can not eat faster then the snake can eat them. Then what do you do with the larger mice? I really don't want a ton of rats/mice for pets! What am I missing?