What defines a "Proven" breeder

[FancypantsFrost]

From my understanding I gather that a "Proven" breeder will take to coupling with another ball, and I like to think an infertile ball such as a female that lays slugs would never be labeled "proven".

What I really want to know is when looking for a proven breeder to buy is there anything about the snake that suggests it has successfully bred in the past or are you completely at the mercy of the previous owners say so?

Thanks for any helpful info in advance. I've decided to try my own hand at some breeding projects and need to be able to make my purchases wisely.
As of now I have 3.0 Pastel, Mojave and Champagne. I also have 0.2 butter enchi, and spider. If I can get any of my boys up to weight for this breeding season I'll be looking for a few normal female breeders and maybe a pastel.

[Freakie_frog]

To me a proven breeder is either one that has bred and laid good eggs or has "proven" out to be a 100% het for something.. aside form that to me at least its not a "proven" breeder.

[rascal_rascal_99]

My opinion ofcourse...and this to me should be more clearcut than what a "virgin female" is which is really divided...


A proven animal to me is one that has been involved in a pairing that produced babies.


I sold a pair of adult taiwan beauty snakes last year, they bred, she laid what appeared to have most likely been good eggs, but they were laid in the water bowl and dead when I found them. When I sold the pair, I disclosed everything about them that I knew, and I did not sell them as proven breeders...only that they were both willing breeders and that she was capable of laying eggs.

As for how to know if what you're buying is proven, that just goes a lot with doing business with people that you think you can trust and taking their word for it. I like taking pictures of locks, finding eggs, and other such things, there is a good chance I may have a picture of a female on eggs...if I haven't deleted the picture off my phone, or can scroll back through facebook far enough to find the picture. Something like that is probably about as close to proof as you'll get, but many breeders don't take pictures of every clutch laid (I sometimes skip them too) and some just don't do many pictures, so I wouldn't call an animal unproven for the lack of being able to provide a picture of it on eggs. Obviously this is talking with females, when it comes to males you might see a picture of him locked, but beyond that you're still just taking the breeders word for it that he sired a clutch. Buying proven animals is kind of like buying hets, even if you get paperwork from them, in the end you're still just taking their word and someone who will lie about what they're selling to make a buck, is probably going to be happy to scribble on a piece of paper if that's what it takes to get your money away from you. You might get a little peace of mind if someone says yes this mojave is proven, here are it's babies it produced...but again, you're still taking their word for it that that's the animal that made them and not a different mojo.

[Aes_Sidhe]

I have Proven Breeder Granite female... She is double proven.. 1st She layed good eggs with hatched and second all of offspring's was granite as well with means in my case she is proven breeder and proven morph.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

A proven breeder female is a female that was bred and successfully laid a clutch of eggs.

A proven male is a male that sired a clutch.

In the event of a Het female it is also a female that has proven out by producing a visual offspring, same goes for proven het male, he sired a clutch that as produced a visual.

What I really want to know is when looking for a proven breeder to buy is there anything about the snake that suggests it has successfully bred in the past or are you completely at the mercy of the previous owners say so?

That would seem like a good proof to me , so ask the breeder for a picture like this for proven females. For the rest well you need to by from a trusted breeder.

[FancypantsFrost]

Thanks everybody, that pretty much answers it for me. I thought maybe there was a visual indication (in the genitalia or something) to suggest an animal has locked or even laid eggs. Knowing that's NOT the case I'll definitely be extra weary of buying expensive morphs and combo morphs under the assumption that they're "Proven".

[kc261]

I'd ask what the person means, because I don't think it is a really well defined term. I've seen some for sale posts that clearly indicate they are calling a male a "proven breeder" just because he's locked with a female. IMO, that proves nothing, because he could possibly be infertile due to some reason such as no live sperm.

Once you know what that particular person means by proven breeder, then I'd say it is a lot like buying hets. If you trust the person for reasons such as them having a good reputation, then you can trust them on this as well. If it is just some random person off craigslist or something similar, then I'm not sure you can even trust a pic of the female on eggs. There is still the possibility that none of them were fertile (rather small if the eggs look good), or the babies all had defects.

[grcforce327]

I thought maybe there was a visual indication (in the genitalia or something) to suggest an animal has locked or even laid eggs.

Really?

I'll definitely be extra weary of buying expensive morphs and combo morphs under the assumption that they're "Proven".

You can be weary all you want,but you will still have to go on word of the seller when purchasing. Lots of crooks out there!