Tameness

[Rhasputin]

I'm interested in hearing about people's progress with taming ASFs. I know a lot of people were working with them, and breeding for better temperament, but I haven't heard any follow up about it.

As far as mine, I really haven't had a -lot- of luck breeding the nicest ones to the nicest ones necessarily. I mean, mine don't bite, which is an improvement over some people, but I can't seem to get the jumping bred out of them by those means. I can hold them in my hands, but they have to be picked up by the tail, and I always hold onto their tail while they explore my arms, or while they're sitting in my hand, because they just pop up for no reason sometimes!

HOWEVER...
I have been working with a gene, that produces shortened snouts, and less protruding eyes, and sometimes slightly bent snouts. I have noticed that these animals specifically, are much less likely to jump, ever. Even siblings from the same litter, when one has the shortened snout, and one doesn't, they differ in whether they will jump or not. The few ASFs that I have that I can pick up from the top without tailing, hold comfortably without worry, and even pet and enjoy are ASFs with this gene (or combination of genes) that cause the stubby faces. I'm not sure if this is just a coincidence yet or not, but I'm interested, and I'd really love to be able to hold and pet all of my ASFs without having to tail them!
I'm also not sure if this is actually a problem mentally with these rodents, or if it's more like domesticating dogs, where the animals with more puppy like features were the most domestic, to put it very basically. It's possible that the shortened faces make it harder for them to perceive depth, or something along those lines, I'm really not sure what the exact reasoning is yet.

[satomi325]

My ASFs are not vicious or aggressive by any means. They don't bite, but they are still rather skiddish in comparison to my Norways. They allow me to touch them or pick them up. But I do have to hold onto their tails, like you, because they will try to randomly try to bounce away.

I can tell they are not totally comfortable with me(even though I have handled many of these rats since birth), so I try not to handle them too much and stress them out unnecessarily. There are a select few in my colony that are bold and friendly. But those individuals are not related to my original breeding pair, in which most of my colony has descended from. I'm trying to breed those nicer ASFs into my stock. So hopefully in a few generations, I will have a friendly bunch of ASFs.

BobbaFett here has a very friendly group of ASFs. She can hang out with them on her bed and they won't run away or try to hide. They don't bite and she can free handle them without worrying that they will jump away.

[Marrissa]

Interesting. So is it more a thing of how many generations in you are? Rats are more common so I would think the lines our rats come from have been domesticated longer than ASF lines.

[satomi325]

Interesting. So is it more a thing of how many generations in you are? Rats are more common so I would think the lines our rats come from have been domesticated longer than ASF lines.

Yes and no.
It's not really the numbers or length of time per say. It's all about the genetics. It's about selectively breeding for those wanted traits and selecting against unwanted traits. But to select for those traits, it could take several generations or as little as one.

I could breed 10, 20, 30 generations of aggressive rats and still get aggressive rats no matter how often I socialize them.
Temperament is heritable.

Genetics is the key. Breeding those with good/friendly/balanced temperament will often produce offspring with those traits and vice versa with those animals with poor temperament.

Norway rats have been selected for positive temperament for years. People(or at least those in the reptile community) have only started to select for ASF temperament recently. But there are still a ton of aggressive colonies being produced and bred because some keepers don't really care since they're feeders.

[OctagonGecko729]

I haven't been breeding for tameness, mostly because I see no point in it.

My ASFs are completely nice and I can hold/touch them no problem. They popcorn when they are excited, whether this is me holding them or just during cleaning day when they are transferred to a tub, they pop around in the tub with each other. I do not free handle them.

The aggressiveness is after the colony has babies. Once they have a litter they are just as they should be in my opinion, devoted and defensive parents. They are also learning my methods of removing them from their litters and are getting smarter about how they try to bite me.

[satomi325]

Breeding for tameness, in my opinion, in regard to ASF feeders is strictly for convenience.
Calm tame feeders are easier to deal with than one that is frightful or aggressive.

Luckily my ASFs aren't aggressive with or without babies present. But regardless, I still would rather not have to worry about getting bitten or attacked when I stick my hand into their tub.
Being protective and defensive is a great survival trait in the wild. And ASFs are hardly domesticated. However, they don't need that kind of behavior here in captive breeding programs. Not to mention, I personally do not want a defensive animal in with my snakes. Best live feeder is a calm one.

[I-KandyReptiles]

My ASFs are not vicious or aggressive by any means. They don't bite, but they are still rather skiddish in comparison to my Norways. They allow me to touch them or pick them up. But I do have to hold onto their tails, like you, because they will try to randomly try to bounce away.

I can tell they are not totally comfortable with me(even though I have handled many of these rats since birth), so I try not to handle them too much and stress them out unnecessarily. There are a select few in my colony that are bold and friendly. But those individuals are not related to my original breeding pair, in which most of my colony has descended from. I'm trying to breed those nicer ASFs into my stock. So hopefully in a few generations, I will have a friendly bunch of ASFs.

BobbaFett here has a very friendly group of ASFs. She can hang out with them on her bed and they won't run away or try to hide. They don't bite and she can free handle them without worrying that they will jump away.

Haha yay I was mentioned!

Those girls have passed away

I've only come across one colony that was mean, and they were offed before producing.

Every ASF I have is tame. And I haven't had any that have become aggressive just because they had a litter.

[Crazymonkee]

Haha yay I was mentioned!

Those girls have passed away

I've only come across one colony that was mean, and they were offed before producing.

Every ASF I have is tame. And I haven't had any that have become aggressive just because they had a litter.

I shoulda got mine from you... I have to use a leather glove to go into there cage. As soon as 1 or 2 of the snakes are big enough they are getting fed off. They outgrew the snakes I have.

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[I-KandyReptiles]

It's crazy how many people seem to have crazy mean ASFs!




I'll see if I can find the pictures of my old girls chilling with me on my bed

[I-KandyReptiles]