First snake and first expo tomorrow

[Thalasuchus]

Hello BP.net, I think I'd better come out of lurking mode since I'm about to actually get my first BP c: (I'm not new to keeping reptiles, I just haven't had a snake before.) I've been researching and lurking for a while and I've had my setup together for a few weeks, so I guess I'll just give a rundown of that first...

It's an Exo Terra terrarium, 36"x18"x18". I know keeping heat and humidity in glass terrariums can be hard so I taped cork tiles to the sides for some insulation, and covered most of the screen top in aluminum foil, leaving a few spaces open at the top for ventilation--the terrarium also has built-in ventilation at the front. (There's only tape on the OUTSIDE of the terrarium, by the way.)
For heating I have a 16 watt UTH on a thermostat (Zoo Med, the on-off kind, probe is on the outside of the UTH) for the hot side, and a 75 watt infrared heat lamp on a dimmer to raise the ambient temps on the cool side (not sure if I'll even need this during warmer months, but I do now). Each side has an identical cave hide. I'm monitoring temps with digital probe thermometers (Zilla), the probes are directly under the hides (secured with hot glue on the cords and the suction cups they came with). I also have a digital thermometer/hygrometer on the cool side glass for ambient temps (Flukers, an old leftover).
Let's see, other than that... I have another log hide that I may or may not keep for the sake of clutter, a corner water dish, and a plastic branch. And the substrate is 100% cypress mulch (Zoo Med forest floor). I have larger versions of the cave hides already if I wind up getting a larger snake.




I've been messing with the temps for weeks trying to get them right. The hot hide is usually between 86 and 90 (it's been hard because the probed thermometer and my infrared temp gun don't agree), the cool side 78-80, and ambient around 80. I'm still working on keeping the hot hide more steady. Humidity is a little high right now (70%-80%) because I JUST put the cypress mulch in there yesterday--I tried aspen for a couple weeks but it wasn't working out at all.

Anyway! Questions:

• this is a pretty big terrarium (like big enough for an adult?), so should I be looking for an older BP? how difficult would it be to find a larger snake at an expo? I've never been to one before.
• if all I can find is babies, would it be okay to get more artificial plants and clutter it up for security? or is this tank still too big?
• maybe a shot in the dark, but has anyone done business with/can recommend any of the vendors on this list? I had a lot of trouble searching them... It looks like it's going to be a pretty small show.

I'm only looking for a pet at this point, so morph isn't that important to me although I like pastels. I'd also like a female. But maybe that's irrelevant right now, oops.

Sorry for the really long post! Just trying to cover all bases here. Probably missed things anyway. Thanks guys <3

[BHReptiles]

It sounds like you're on the right track. Husbandry sounds pretty good and those temps are fine. You'll just have to watch your humidity because of the light. However, if you stay on top of it, it shouldn't be a problem.

At the expo, you're going to find A LOT of babies. Since you're on the hunt for females, keep in mind that the price of a female goes up as it gets bigger. Starting off with a baby should be find in that setup. While the baby is still young, I'd buy A LOT of fake plants/vines to clutter the cage. You want it to be so cluttered that you can barely see the substrate. The little snake needs to feel secure or it won't eat for you. That'll be your biggest problem with a small baby in that large enclosure. In fact, I'd offer a few more hides. Sometimes, having 3-4 hides can also help.

[asmodeus]

That size tank is probably good for an adult. You may want to pick up a small to medium sized plastic tub (with UTH, hides, etc.) for the first few months. I completely agree that you should provide more coverage/hides if you are going to stick with the larger tank. I have two exo terra tanks and started off with the medium low tanks. However, they will only last for 1-2 years as my female ball and male boa grew fast.

I am sorry I could not help you out with the high humidity issue as I live in CO, an arid environment. The UTH and dimmer is definitely a good way to go. As you increase the heat lamp setting it will dry out more. Is the bulb you are using also ok for nighttime? Consistent light can sometimes stress out a snake.

Other than that I am so happy that you are covering all your bases and sound knowledgeable on reptile care (or are at least seeking out additional information). As another newbie to snakes I can recommend when I bought my first snake I made sure to get to know the booth owners (and what they were selling) through phone calls and emails, then selected a top 4 booths to visit. This way if you run into issues early on you can contact them directly and have already built a relationship.

Make sure to ask for a feeding chart and also try to go with F/T. Best of luck!








Sent from a happy snake owner.

[Neal]

Yea, adding along with what BHR said, you're most likely going to end up buying a baby. This is because as the snakes get older and are breeding size the price goes up. So with that like she said you need to make the tank cluttered so it's not so much open space. One thing you can try to do to help with humidity is put another water bowl, put some logs in there that you can get from one of the pet store vendors that may be there.

Also with your infrared temp gun, most people don't know that when you shoot it onto reflective surfaces you get an inaccurate reading. So with this in mind you don't want to shoot through the glass onto the substrate because it'll be wrong. Also if you try to shoot through the top, that sometimes gives you inaccurate reading because that mesh is metal which is reflective.

When you are looking at animals at the show you should hold them for a bit and let them warm up, this way you can get a better idea about how they are as babies. One key thing to remember is they will have a lot of vendors and so you'll end up having 2-3+ vendors which the same kind of snake you're looking for and they will all have different prices. With that in mind you also have better breeders than others. Some are more picky than others so even though you may see a pastel for $75 from one then another has $100, compare them. Look to see which is holding color better, while some prefer quality over quantity, some don't focus on that aspect. Ask questions about the feeding schedule(i.e. how many meals has it eaten, what is it currently eating) and this will also give you some insight on how well they know their animals. I wouldn't recommend getting a snake from a show that hasn't at least had a solid 3 meals prior without any intervening necessary. I've seen people get screwed at the show and get stuck with an animal that has only eaten once or hasn't eaten yet and I've had to help them establish their animals. So this is a big part in choosing who you buy from as well as the price factor come into play. If the snake is only eating mouse hoppers, and because the vendor is most likely in another state I would recommend new keepers to skip. This can be for several reasons, one being the snakes feeding response hasn't fully kicked in yet or as with some BP's they don't like to eat rats so they may never make the switch and you'll be stuck feeding your BP mice. Some people will tell you oh they can always be switched, which in fact isn't the truth. Sure some can but some will never and you can ask other breeders on here. That's just a number of things I'd recommend to a new snake keeper when looking to purchase from a show. Ask questions, if the person seems to get annoyed or not really paying attention to you then that says a lot about their character.

Also get a card from the vendor in case you have any questions.

[asmodeus]

Never mind about the light pollution. I see you have an IR bulb.

Sent from a happy snake owner.

[Thalasuchus]

Thanks guys! Unfortunately I didn't get your replies until after I left the expo, oops... I wound up with a female pastel from J & S Reptiles--it was a really small expo with local breeders from what I could tell. They said she was born in July, but didn't have weight or feeding records. He said he had way too many snakes for that. He also told me she was eating prekilled rat pups and was feeding well. The vendor also had retics, BCIs, sand boas, a variety of colubrids, and Sulcata tortoises, but they had a ton of juvenile and adult BPs that all looked really good.

I'll have to post photos later. I'm not sure of the length or weight (he said "about 140g" but he didn't seem sure) of the BP I got, I'm hoping to get a digital scale ASAP and I didn't want to stretch her out. She's very active, curious, tolerant to handling and had a very strong grip compared to all the others I held (a larger normal and a similar-sized pastel). They were out of frozen rat pups at the expo and no luck at the pet store, so I'm going to try to order online. I picked up some small rats at the store anyway but I think they're gonna be too big for her. I'm going to leave her alone for a week before I try to feed or handle her again anyway. I also picked up a few more artificial plants to clutter up the enclosure so there are several places to hide now, but I wanted to leave just one fully-enclosed hot hide over the UTH. I'll post an updated photo of the enclosure later also.

@BHReptiles: The humidity seems to be holding really well even with the light, at least now that I have cypress mulch. It looks like it will take a few days to go down from 80%-70% to 50% after being misted. But I'll have to keep watching it. I do have some sphagnum moss if I ever need to make a humid hide for her. Her belly looked pink and she had some dry-looking skin on her head so I think she might be shedding soon.

@asmodeus: I'm hoping I won't have to go with a tub setup, but if she has difficulty eating and seems to feel insecure I might have to consider it :c She spent about a half hour exploring the terrarium after she got home, then settled in the hot hide for a nap, so I'm hoping that's a good sign? And yeah, I went with an IR bulb so that there wouldn't be too much bright light, and there wouldn't have to be a night time temp drop.

@Neal: I'd heard that about IR temp guns not working on/through glass, I've been trying to point it at just the mulch but since it's pretty shallow, maybe it is interacting with the bottom glass a bit :/ I'm not sure whether to go by the probe reading or the temp gun, because sometimes there's as much as an 8 degree difference... It's just the hot hide that's having this issue, but I'm not sure if it's because I let the cool side have deeper substrate (no UTH) so the glass can't effect the reading? I'm confusing myself, never used a UTH before. Such a noob.

Thank you all again for the thoughtful replies, I'll get back with pics soon. Overall I'm not too happy with my choice of vendor, but I do have their business card and contact info, and the BP looks healthy.

[Neal]

Thanks guys! Unfortunately I didn't get your replies until after I left the expo, oops... I wound up with a female pastel from J & S Reptiles--it was a really small expo with local breeders from what I could tell. They said she was born in July, but didn't have weight or feeding records. He said he had way too many snakes for that. He also told me she was eating prekilled rat pups and was feeding well. The vendor also had retics, BCIs, sand boas, a variety of colubrids, and Sulcata tortoises, but they had a ton of juvenile and adult BPs that all looked really good.

I'll have to post photos later. I'm not sure of the length or weight (he said "about 140g" but he didn't seem sure) of the BP I got, I'm hoping to get a digital scale ASAP and I didn't want to stretch her out. She's very active, curious, tolerant to handling and had a very strong grip compared to all the others I held (a larger normal and a similar-sized pastel). They were out of frozen rat pups at the expo and no luck at the pet store, so I'm going to try to order online. I picked up some small rats at the store anyway but I think they're gonna be too big for her. I'm going to leave her alone for a week before I try to feed or handle her again anyway. I also picked up a few more artificial plants to clutter up the enclosure so there are several places to hide now, but I wanted to leave just one fully-enclosed hot hide over the UTH. I'll post an updated photo of the enclosure later also.

@BHReptiles: The humidity seems to be holding really well even with the light, at least now that I have cypress mulch. It looks like it will take a few days to go down from 80%-70% to 50% after being misted. But I'll have to keep watching it. I do have some sphagnum moss if I ever need to make a humid hide for her. Her belly looked pink and she had some dry-looking skin on her head so I think she might be shedding soon.

@asmodeus: I'm hoping I won't have to go with a tub setup, but if she has difficulty eating and seems to feel insecure I might have to consider it :c She spent about a half hour exploring the terrarium after she got home, then settled in the hot hide for a nap, so I'm hoping that's a good sign? And yeah, I went with an IR bulb so that there wouldn't be too much bright light, and there wouldn't have to be a night time temp drop.

@Neal: I'd heard that about IR temp guns not working on/through glass, I've been trying to point it at just the mulch but since it's pretty shallow, maybe it is interacting with the bottom glass a bit :/ I'm not sure whether to go by the probe reading or the temp gun, because sometimes there's as much as an 8 degree difference... It's just the hot hide that's having this issue, but I'm not sure if it's because I let the cool side have deeper substrate (no UTH) so the glass can't effect the reading? I'm confusing myself, never used a UTH before. Such a noob.

Thank you all again for the thoughtful replies, I'll get back with pics soon. Overall I'm not too happy with my choice of vendor, but I do have their business card and contact info, and the BP looks healthy.

Too many snakes to keep birth records and feeding records? That's a pathetic excuse and would of proved my point exactly. Sean Bradley & Tim Bailey both have over 1000 snakes and both of them keep birthing records. Now even with Tim having 1000 snakes he keeps feeding records on all of his snakes. He just wants the money without having to put the time and effort into it. So if I were you I'd never waste my time with that breeder again.

Definitely post pictures once you get a chance. What did you end up paying? I'm curious.

[Thalasuchus]

Too many snakes to keep birth records and feeding records? That's a pathetic excuse and would of proved my point exactly. Sean Bradley & Tim Bailey both have over 1000 snakes and both of them keep birthing records. Now even with Tim having 1000 snakes he keeps feeding records on all of his snakes. He just wants the money without having to put the time and effort into it. So if I were you I'd never waste my time with that breeder again.

Definitely post pictures once you get a chance. What did you end up paying? I'm curious.

I thought it sounded like a bad excuse too... I hope I didn't make a bad decision. Hopefully she'll eat for me. There was another vendor who said they left their record cards at home, so they didn't even know how old their snakes were. Anyway I wound up paying $80 for her, but I was surprised at how little a lot of morphs there cost compared to prices I've seen online. I guess because these are small breeders and the animals probably aren't too high quality? but I wouldn't know a poor quality champagne from a top notch one so I couldn't tell you, haha.

Anyway, a few pictures so you guys can help me out to see if her body weight looks okay. She has good muscle tone and always grabbed my fingers tight with her tail every time I held her (but she balled up by the time we got her home). I don't know if her size is normal for her age (6 months)? I know that tends to vary but I just hope she isn't too small...

[Thalasuchus]

Forgot to add, the vendor said that he never had a problem with mites but I checked under her chin, around her eyes, pits and vent and didn't see any signs of mites. She also doesn't seem to be very head shy. She did get nervous and coiled up to strike a few times on the trip home if something moved past her head too quickly, but she never hissed or tried to bite. Her nostrils and mouth look clear and I didn't hear anything that might hint at a URI either, so she seems healthy to me? Having never held a snake before yesterday, hahaha...

I'll be sure to pick a better breeder next time. I think I got too wrapped up in how much I liked the animal. Hopefully I won't pay for it.

[bumblebee1028]

Awww, she's cute! I hope she's healthy and eats for you