High and low white in pieds

[brettfong]

Hi, I was wondering if the amount of white in pieds is genetic or not. I've heard it isn't but never really got a definitive answer.

Also if anyone has proof/pictures of the parents and their clutches that would be very helpful!

Thanks!

[OhhWatALoser]

When people say something is not genetic, they actually mean it is not monogenetic, as in one gene controls the trait. Which I think it is a safe assumption it is not a simple monogenetic trait. It is possible that the amount of white is polygenetic, which just means multiple genes control the amount of white. it could be 100 genes all adding their own little part and doing other things at the same time. In theory you could refine those traits and consistently produce high or low white pieds, but I haven't heard of anyone doing that. Chances are there are a lot of variations of the genes which will make it tough to consistently produce the trait you are looking for.

[brettfong]

Oddly enough, I'm learning about that in my genetics course right now! thanks!

[Pythonfriend]

for regular pieds people say its completely random, you can breed low white to low white and get high white. im sure clutch pictures that show the randomness wont be hard to find.


but some genes can be used to control it.

for example: super enchi pieds tend to be very low white. spider pieds tend to be very high white, often you only have a normal head and the rest of the BP is white. and lesser pieds are completely white.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...er-enchi-pied/
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/spied/
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/lesser-pied/

generally its random, these are the exceptions.

Edit, because others posted faster: i think 50% white pieds will be tough, if not impossible, to produce consistently. but producing very high white pieds or very low white pieds seems to be easy if you add the right morphs. why go through the effort of line-breeding it over multiple generations with uncertain outcome when you can just use enchi or spider or lesser to control it?

[OhhWatALoser]

Good deal. If they go over epigenetics you'll want to listen up then also. Basically every gene can have different levels of expression. It's possible the amount of white could be varying amounts of expression showing or a combination of both polygenetics and epigenetics. All possibilities to why, but I doubt we will ever know for sure, at least anytime soon

[Pythonfriend]

Good deal. If they go over epigenetics you'll want to listen up then also. Basically every gene can have different levels of expression. It's possible the amount of white could be varying amounts of expression showing or a combination of both polygenetics and epigenetics. All possibilities to why, but I doubt we will ever know for sure, at least anytime soon

lets not forget it could also actually be fundamentally random. like, when you are genetically predisposed to have freckles, its still random where exactly the individual freckles will be, and the amount of them will depend a lot on how much sunlight you get. maybe early in the development in a pied each skin cell has a slim chance to start a process that will form a dark area on the pied, and if its 10000 cells involved you basically roll the dice 10000 times. like birth marks, you can be genetically predisposed to have them, but how many you get and where is random.

[brettfong]

its still random where exactly the individual freckles will be, and the amount of them will depend a lot on how much sunlight you get.

That's what he was getting at with the epigenetics. Some genetics can be swayed depending on the environment they are incubated/raised/grown up in and this can affect their phenotype.