Getting snakes up to size. Negative effects?

[Bst1007]

So there have been quite a few discussions on breeding weight/age and what defines powerfeeding.

I've read everything I can find and talked to several fellow breeders about this topic.

Do any of you have first hand experience with the potential negative effects associated with rushing a snake into a breeding program? I've heard of females slugging out and shortened life span. But, everything I have read appears to be second hand info.

I have several females I am very eager to breed and would appreciate some insight.

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[TheSnakeGeek]

with ball pythons, if they wanna eat, feed em. lol they'll let you know when they've had enough.

[sho220]

So there have been quite a few discussions on breeding weight/age and what defines powerfeeding.

I've read everything I can find and talked to several fellow breeders about this topic.

Do any of you have first hand experience with the potential negative effects associated with rushing a snake into a breeding program? I've heard of females slugging out and shortened life span. But, everything I have read appears to be second hand info.

I have several females I am very eager to breed and would appreciate some insight.

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Personally I don't think you can rush them into breeding. If they're not ready, they probably won't.

However, people can over-feed thinking that just because they're big they can breed. I think age has more to do with it than size.

All I can add to that is that the best feeding ball I've ever had is my female Yellowbelly. She's always been a pig and almost never refused a meal. She's also the worst breeder I've had. Took several years of pairing up to get her to give me eggs. The first couple of seasons I tried breeding her, she was probably what I'd now consider over-weight...i.e. I could easily see skin between her scales, and she just looked a bit porky. She only gave me eggs after slimming down a bit. I don't know if it's coincidence or not though...

[Bst1007]

Personally I don't think you can rush them into breeding. If they're not ready, they probably won't.

However, people can over-feed thinking that just because they're big they can breed. I think age has more to do with it than size

I totally agree with you! Thank you for your insight. I have 9 hatchling females that seldom refuse a meal. I figure I might as well take advantage of their healthy appetite and get as much weight on them as possible. I have had a couple snakes that I grew slowly that went off feed before hitting breeding weight on their third season. I figure that if I had fed more heavily as hatchlings they would have had that extra weight they needed to possibly go at 2 yrs definetely at 3 yrs

My hatchlings from 5/ 31/13 are roughly 425-475 grams. Good eaters and should hit weight by 2 nd season. That's not saying they will breed for me. But they won't have the chance if they don't have the mass.

I care about the well being of these animals. And want them to be successful early breeders and live long healthy lives. I'm just trying to figure out where to draw the line.

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[kylearmbar]

Awhile ago I got a young snake who was still being fed pnkies even though she was two hundred grams and when I got her I switched to a medium mouse every 5 days since she was wider than the medium was thinking it'd be fine and she endws up prolapsing and im pretty sure it was because of the sudden feeding change, so for my 2 cents just ease into changing meal size

[rafacacho]

with ball pythons, if they wanna eat, feed em. lol they'll let you know when they've had enough.

I agree. I dont think theres a lot of bp you can overfeed out there. They naturally stop eating.

Now, I feed once a week, but when they are starting to grow follicles they get bigger rats and sometimes two rats a week. Never had an issue, almost no slugs, and lots of healthy eggs.

[OctagonGecko729]

Yeah thats been my experience. I have been raising around 9 animals for the last year from hatchlings to their current weights of 1000g+. They choose when they will feed and when they wont. There are things you can do to entice them to start eating again but ultimately its their choice. I have gone through a 4 month fast from the majority of my collection and I have also had certain females eat every 3 days which aren't overweight.

[MrLang]

People here will tell you 18 months and 1500 grams before you pair. Kevin McCurley is one of the biggest breeders in ball pythons and cites 1000g and 1 year in his book. I will tell you I paired both of my females at around 1 year and 1100-1200g and both were 1700+ by ovulation because they feed very aggressively once they start building. They then both went on to lay 5 and 6 egg clutches all fertile and hatched healthy.

What I can also tell you is that I have been on this and other forums very regularly for a few years and haven't read anything about any snakes dying from breeding. Plenty of threads where they slug out or need an egg aspirated at the vet because they couldn't pass it, but none where they died. What I CAN'T tell you is whether people are lurking in the shadows in shame for breeding a female too young and having her die from it. They have the ability to reabsorb follicles all the way up until ovulation. I think their body during that whole time is figuring out whether or not they'll be able to handle the entire process safely.

[Mike41793]

All females breed at different sizes and ages. You can't know when they're ready so starting to try them when they're younger isn't a big deal imo. If they're ready, they'll go, if they aren't, then they wont.

I started pairing my female at 1250g this year. She got up to 1800ish grams. In my experience, once you start pairing it really triggers them to be pounding the rats lol.