I'm writing a paper - your opinions on anti-exotics legislation please!

[Mindibun]

I need your help. I am writing a paper for my Environmental Sociology course about the Burmese pythons in the everglades and how it is the result of humans, yada yada. However, I must also include a sociological aspect. I figured I would focus on the conflict between lawmakers, the media, and the general public - vs the reptile community.

Basically, I need opinions and comments from all of you herpers regarding how you feel about the anti-exotics legislation. My current argument is that lawmakers are using their power and the mass hysteria to push bills that will take away the rights of reptile keepers and grant MORE rights/power to agencies such as FWC. Do you feel that lawmakers are just using their power to try to take away OUR rights/power? I would really love some input from those of you who are well-read on the anti-exotics laws that have been proposed in the past, such as HR 669, and those that are still in the works. This paper is still in VERY rough form and I am still shaping my ideas so absolutely any input will help at this point.

Thank you SO much, guys. I truly appreciate any help or suggestions you can give me.

[decensored]

Hey,

I am actually writing a proposal on how to address that issue in Canada, in light of recent events where two children were allegedly killed by an African rock python. There is public pressure to address the issue, and the federal and provincial governments are looking at their legislation in regards to control of the exotic pet trade. This may include a ban. Ergo I am putting together a counter argument/ paper/ proposal for ways to control the industry, without devastating the reptile community.

If you want to send me an email at: decensored@hotmail.com, I will send you a copy when I have completed it.

I honestly think that the government has two agendas;

1) Address public demands, and although they are based on ignorance - the number of people who are afraid of and don't understand the reptile community greatly out number those of us who are enthusiasts.

2) Generate Income - You see this in licensing and permits. Does licensing and permits solve the problems? Absolutely not, but it generates income and helps the public feel like something is being done the issue.

It's a difficult time for all of us in the reptile community across North America..

Cheers,
Chris.

[Rickys_Reptiles]

In my opinion, the law markers and the politicians and the media are not all the same people, so they should be addressed separately.

The Lawmakers in Canada do actually listen to both parties, despite what the media may think.

The Politicians will say whatever they need to say to get votes, they don't have a side. The only side they care about is the side that votes for them. If the side that votes for them likes snakes, then that’s who they will support.

The media wants money. Whoever pays more, that’s they side they will back.

So...

For the lawmakers, it is our job to educate them. We need to find a method to get in front of those people and show them that we are educating. How? I would like to see an open forum education event. A day long event with several "experts" in a room, going through free education sessions. It would be free to the public, all paid by reptile sponsors. Each room, or area, would have an expert showing the public how to take care of, and appreciate that particular reptile species. Husbandry, handling, feeding, illness etc. There would be a new "class" every hour on the hour, all day - for free. By doing this, we show the public that we want to teach people and that we care! Law makers like that, they like to see that the "accused" is taking steps to solve the problems without needing to change the law. The more work we do, the less work they have to do. Law makers have more important things to do.

For the politicians, we need to get them involved. We need to show them how many votes they can get from the reptile community. Imagine, as a politician, if you found out you could get an extra 10,000 votes.. or loose 10,000 votes? That’s big. If we all write letters to our local politicians telling them that we back politicians who understand and respect our hobby they will open their eyes.

For the media - they want money. There must be some writers in this hobby, some people with a background in PR and a few people with connections. They need to work together, get positive stories in the news, online and on TV. Snakes at hospitals, schools - helping people. Birthday parties with children loving reptiles. There are many ways to swing any story to show the positive angles of reptiles. The experts need to step out of the shadows and help! Once a few media outlets start to run positive stories - more will follow.

[Mindibun]

Good point about the money in permits. I hadn't thought to mention that yet and I will definitely have to add it. Keep the ideas coming, guys. I really appreciate it.

[sorraia]

Speaking from a US perspective as a wildlife biologist and exotics keeper...

I don't think lawmakers, or agencies such as USFWS, are strictly trying to take away our rights. In all honesty, I don't think they are even looking at animal ownership as a "right" nor consider themselves taking away our "rights" by putting bans or regulations into place. I do think they are in some cases bending to public pressure, often pushed forward by media hysteria and incomplete or pseudo-science. I also think the pressure from the public is sometime pushed by an animal rights agenda, where there's a strong belief that no animal should be kept in captivity (it's just easier to pass bans and regulations on exotics that most people don't keep or understand, and feed off the lack of understanding and the fear the public may hold, rather than trying to regulate common pets such as cats and dogs). There is also a desire to protect our environment, and the public may believe that exotic animals are taken from their native habitat to be sold in the pet trade (sometimes true, many times not), but also may believe those exotic animals pose a threat to our native wildlife and habitats (sometimes true, sometimes not, depends a lot on what the animal is and where it is being kept).

I live and work in a very sensitive and biodiverse hotspot. In my job I DO see a lot of exotic invasive animals who ARE endangering and pushing out our native wildlife. The most common of these exotic reptiles and amphibians are bullfrogs, African clawed frogs, red-eared sliders, and soft-shelled turtles. I've heard unsubstantiated reports of large pythons in our area too (I'd believe they are out there, question is how well are they surviving). We also have invasive fish and bird species (fish were mostly introduced purposefully for sport or food purposes, such as catfish and bass, have seen goldfish out in native habitat though!). There are a few invasive mammals, though not many (unless you include the innumerable feral cats, or consider the unknown number of rats and mice). Exotic plants are another branch of the same problem. Exotic animals do pose a serious threat to our native wildlife and habitats, in this area. The species that are found here may not be found in other parts of the country though. Because of the danger these species do pose to native wildlife, and the inability of the public to realize how bad it is to release captive animals (both for the animal being released, and the animals who may be threatened by its release), from a biological perspective I would like to see more regulations on SOME animals. However I think regulations should be created and enforced on a local level, and not on a nation-wide level, because we do have different climates and habitats and not all animals are going to pose a threat in all areas.

From an exotics keeper perspective, I don't like the idea of regulation, because it would make things harder for me (and others in the hobby). I don't agree with outright and complete bans. I do think maybe some species (those who are especially sensitive and extremely hard to keep in captivity, or those who have been proven to be especially injurious to native wildlife, don't ask me for a list because I do not have the knowledge to create one, except for those species especially injurious to my specific area) should be regulated to an extent, with a permit system put into place. However I think that kind of regulation should again be done on a local level, and not a nation-wide level.

Now stepping out of the shoes of biologist and exotics keeper, and speaking as an armchair political activist... I think in many respects our governments (local, state, and nation) have it backwards. I think there are a lot of laws in place that make no sense, and others that should be in place but aren't. I think there are requirements for permits that make sense, and then others that don't make sense. As a biologist in the state of California, I am required to carry a CDFW scientific collecting permit to do my work. For some species I am also required to carry a federal USFWS permit along with an MOU. I also need a salvage permit to collect dead animals I find incidentally. I am currently on another person's USFWS permit and MOU, but I hold my own personal state permit. That permit now costs over $400 and requires a whole stack of paperwork be filled out with justification for my work. BUT if I wanted to go out as any Joe Blow on the street and collect reptiles, all I need is a sport fishing license (something like $50?), and follow bag limits. On the job as a biologist I don't even collect wildlife, I merely observe and take notes (in some studies I do handle herps and mammals, but they are always released), and to do that I have a lengthy and expensive process to get my permit. I need additional permits, as well as the authorities' blessing, to remove invasive harmful exotics from our natural wild areas. But to permanently remove native wildlife for no reason other than my personal whim, I only need $50 and a sportfishing license. Tell me how that makes sense? Any way... that might be a tangent, so rant over.

[sorraia]

Another thought on regulation... One problem I see with regulating species already in the country (not imported or exported) is enforcement. Once a person has their permit to keep whatever species, are they then subject to random unannounced visits from the authorities to check up on the care and containment of those animals? If so, I see that as a possible infringement on our rights and personal privacy, and that is something I do have a problem with. (Maybe feel differently about it for a commercial operation that is providing a service to the public, for example a pet store selling exotic pets.) If the authorities aren't making unannounced visits, how do they know the individual is following the terms of their permits and regulations? How do they know the individual isn't releasing exotics into native habitat? (Thinking again of red-eared sliders in our area - they don't belong here, but they are out there and thriving, and it's all because of the pet trade. Those red-eared sliders are introducing disease and out-competing our native Western pond turtles.) Unless there's some kind of periodic reporting or inspection, I'm not sure a permit system makes sense, except for commercial operations or zoos. For the average exotics keeper (even a breeder), it doesn't make sense.

On another note... it comes down to education. The public needs to be educated. It isn't just about letting the public know that snakes aren't evil animals out to kill us, but also about letting the public know how these animals should be properly cared for, and making sure the public knows these animals (whatever they may be) should not be released outdoors. The public needs to understand that herps (and other exotics) have specific environmental needs, and if they are to survive and thrive in captivity those needs must be met. The public also needs to understand that releasing captive animals introduces disease to our native wildlife, and also introduces potential competitors to native wildlife. Those potential competitors may out-compete native wildlife if they happen to find an unfilled niche, which may then result in the disappearance of important and vital native wildlife. The public also needs to understand this isn't just a matter of "evolution" or "adaptation", things the public as a whole don't understand in the first place! This can only be accomplished through education. Education can only be achieved with knowledge. Knowledge is possessed through study and real science. Lessen the regulations on scientists and wildlife biologists, gain more knowledge, make that knowledge available for education outlets and public outreach, and hopefully succeed in educating the public.

[MrLang]

The media sensationalizes everything it can get its hands on because that is what average dummy on the couch with a Budweiser after a hard day's work is entertained by, with a focus on:

Sex
Guns
Drugs
Explosions
Scandal
Dinosaurs (reptiles)
Freaks
Epidemics


Lawmakers are as dumb as the average schmo or dumber. We have a society that at this point doesn't really need much core tinkering to run. Since their jobs as lawmakers are to make rules and buzz around what should or should not be everyone's business and expected behavior within the society, these are the things they choose to mess around with.

[Mindibun]

I've got this paper about half-way finished, but I need to know how the Burmese got into the Everglades in the first place along (Andrew destroying a breeding facility is the version I know) with the rest of the history of the problem. Yeah, I could google it and do some research, but I'm being lazy and hoping someone here knows the whole story and wants to tell it to a captive audience.

Also, would anyone be interested in reading this bad boy when I get it finished? It's smart-sounding (emphasis on "sounding") and boring, but it's got snakes in it!