male & female housed together consecutive months

[JoeNapoli]

Hi,

Searching this "Breeding Rats" forum for keywords "male female together" did not reveal what I was looking for, hence this new thread. Google images for "rat crawler hopper" contain a photo uploaded nearly 2 years ago:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...and-Mice-in-VA

What caught my eye is that it appears the male has been left in with the nursing female & pinkies. His tail is draped over the female. Am I right? If so, was just wondering why. Intentionally as part of a breeding schedule? To use rodent housing in an efficient manner? or ???

I've read "letting the male live with the female... father would never hurt his babies, all females come back into heat within 24 hours of the birth (called the post partum estrus) so if you leave them together she would immediately become pregnant again... "
http://ratfanclub.org/repro.html

Has anyone been able to get a new litter from the same female every 3 weeks? If so, have you noticed a gradual decrease in litter size? (I'm talking about with breeders <1yr old, I know with breeders >1yr old a decrease in litter size is to be expected regardless of breeding frequency.)

What's your record for litter size?

Thanks for any insight!

[MrLang]

You can house them all together permanently. It's called 'harem breeding'. You will 'wear out' the female much faster this way. In some cases if she is malnourished she may decide to eat a litter to keep the nutrients she put into them if she feels her own health is in danger. I don't think it really happens that much though.

My first breeding I had a litter of 18 from a first time mom and that's been my record.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

You will 'wear out' the female much faster this way.

X2

Having your female being pregnant while nursing her babies takes it's toll rapidly not only on your females health but may also affect the size of your litters.

Once females are pregnant I pull the out so they can birth and nurse their litter, only once the litter is weaned do they get back into breeding rotation.

My goal is maximum production but also large healthy litter which is why I do not leave the male in.

[carlson]

I tired it when I first started, my first girl got wore out fast tho she died after four litters, her fifth was all still born two months later I tried her again an she died while pregnant. I now remove before they drop let them care for their litter then back into breeding by a month. Haven't had a still born since but have had mom not care for her litter

[zeion97]

Letting rats live together is easuer on you, not having to moce a few rats aroubd abd it also helps to ensure that you always have a litter but at the very same time it also takes its toll on the females body and shortens her lifespan as well as redicing lutter size. I personally like keep it 4.1 or at most 5.1 if you're going to use this meathod.

I also posted yesterday that after thousands of rats I've only had maybe 4-6 bad mothers who I had to cull. My biggest female her name was alpha. She would kill males snaller than her, I got aroubd this by once they were weaned moving them immediately to a new tub.

Rat breedibg is fun but also a lot of work. I reccomend tekland 20-16 has done me wonder and only about .80 a poubd.

[JoeNapoli]

You can house them all together permanently. It's called 'harem breeding'. You will 'wear out' the female much faster this way. In some cases if she is malnourished she may decide to eat a litter to keep the nutrients she put into them if she feels her own health is in danger. I don't think it really happens that much though.

My first breeding I had a litter of 18 from a first time mom and that's been my record.

Thanks for the info. I think harem aka colony breeding refers to 1 male + >1 female. I was thinking in terms of 1.1 assuming of course a non-aggressive male.

Yeah several sites mention the wearing out, but none quantify it. For example: January 1 = 15 pups; January 21 = 14 pups; February 15 = 13 pups; etc

I woke up to 16 pups this morning, hoping she would split them up into 2 ~equal groups as I have seen with other breeders in the past. But instead she has a group of 3 and a group of 13. I guess the group of 3 are going to grow much faster, we'll see.

[zeion97]

Thanks for the info. I think harem aka colony breeding refers to 1 male + >1 female. I was thinking in terms of 1.1 assuming of course a non-aggressive male.

Yeah several sites mention the wearing out, but none quantify it. For example: January 1 = 15 pups; January 21 = 14 pups; February 15 = 13 pups; etc

I woke up to 16 pups this morning, hoping she would split them up into 2 ~equal groups as I have seen with other breeders in the past. But instead she has a group of 3 and a group of 13. I guess the group of 3 are going to grow much faster, we'll see.

Usually mothers will take turns nursing them. I've seen mothers split in half and switch off or one take a few and freed them and than another female do the same back. Rats mothers are excellent. You shouldn't have anything to really worry about besides wearing out your females. Just keep a eye out because some mothers will take ALL the duties and not let the others be mothers. I'd give you more advice but my iPad has 1% battery..lol

[MrLang]

When my rats have more than 12 babies they usually make little piles of less than 12 and nurse separately, which worried me the first time. It's remarkable how they can tell which ones need to eat and split them up. I also thought the piles were uneven, but I think they rotate out which babies are in the small pile. My theory is that since the mom is needed for the babies to go to the bathroom, she can tell which ones are 'empty' and puts them aside to feed. All my babies ended up growing at about the same rate.

[JoeNapoli]

u r right! the piles this morning r not the same as yesterday... .. .

[snakesRkewl]

When I bred I used momma racks and separated females to birthing tubs.
Now that my partner breeds our rats he harem breeds 1.5 or 1.6 and is having the same success except possibly the babies aren't quite as chunky when weaned as they were when being separated.
We average about 12-13 per litter either way we've done it.