When is it sensible to breeder feeders instead of buying?

[threezero]

So I'm gonna add a thrid member to my snake collection very soon. I'm now contemplating whether it would be cheaper for me keep a small breeding colony of rat to feed my growing collection. I want to breed my 2 female balls when they get up to size in about a year so there will be at least one more male to add to the collection + however many babies that will eventually come. I hope that by that time i will have a self sufficiant colony of rats and rat babies so I don't have to get rape at the pet store for their rats. But from my research it seems like breeding rats aint exactly cheap either, have to factor in their food and wood shaving.

Is there any way to keep down the cost of rat breeding? For example using something cheaper than wood shaving? Feeding the rat human food/my dog's food?

I'm currently pay about $4 for a small rat if I have time to drive out further, if not the closest pet store sells small rats for $6 which would be almost $20 a week just to feed 3 snakes, i'm hoping i can do better than that by breeding my own. And no buying bulk in f/t isn't an option yet as i don't have a big enough collection nor do i have a extra freezer to store the rats in.

I realize that it take sometime to get the colony started but if this is ultimately going to save my money I really want to do it.


I have had alot of hamster in my childhood days, it wasn't that high maintain but i still have to refil its food every other day and switch out the shaving every other week. But hamster is nowhere as messy and stinky as rats. How much extra work am i look at per week?


or should i just forget all this and get a mini freezer

[wolfy-hound]

You should first realize the time spent taking care of the rat colony. You'll need space and yes, you'll need wood shavings and rodent diet, not people food. Yes, there could be some smell, especially if you cut corners and don't use good bedding, don't clean the bins often, etc etc.

For smaller numbers of snakes, I would say get a freezer. It's really only for larger numbers of pythons that you start to reach the tipping point where raising the rats yourself pays for itself.

The local price of the rodents matters in figuring your costs, but don't forget the time you'll spend too.

I was spending $60/week on feeders(high quality local live feeder supplier). Now I spend right about $20/week on supplies BUT I also spend a good few hours a week working the rat colony, which isn't super pleasant, since the bins can stink. And I LIKE rats and I've worked some rank jobs, so cleaning out a dirty rat bin with rat urine and feces and the occasional dead half-eaten rat isn't as distasteful to me as it would be to most.

[John Marker]

I started my rat colony when I was up to 10 snakes. It wasn't to save money, because I expected it to cost more than buying bulk frozen, it was so I could have a constant supply for my finicky eaters who wouldn't eat frozen with any regularity.

Currently I have 3.14 breeder rats, that I have put into a rotation that produces 2 litters per week, roughly of course. I am able to get my bedding and lab block(6F) from a local horse supply store. I typically spend around 75.00 per month with them.

Now my colony does produce more rats than what I use during a typical week, so I sell my extras to other snake keepers in my area. This helps to offset my rodent costs.

Hope this helps,

John

[threezero]

cleaning out the bin doesnt really bother me but its not enjoyable and i wouldn't want to do it if i'm not saving money from keeping my own, like you i have work some pretty dirty jobs too and i have had and i have work in a pet store before, i have also seen half eaten dead rats mice and hamster.


In any case why cant i feed rats human food? I'm not talking about junk food here, healthy maybe even raw food. Rats have survive on human scraps for millennium have they not? except for the food that is poisonous to them shouldn't they be ok? The mazuri dog food alot of people feed their rats are also just processed left over human food like any other dog food? If dogs can be raise on raw food why can't rats?


As for space I plan to keep them in my garage, simply because anywhere else it would stink too much. I'm trying to work out the math of everything i would need. how much shaving do they go through a week? if i feed commercial food how much am i looking at a week? How many tubs would i need to get a small colony going? I'm assuming that 1 female rat to one snake, so with 3 snakes to feed atm i would need a 1.3 colony. Can i succesfully keep that in 2 tubs? one for the male when the female is preganant and one for all the females?

The small size rats i want would take about a month to reach the size, what do i do about the one that reach the size but can't be feed yet? eventaully some of them will grow too big. Is there like a formula i can follow to make sure i have rats when i need it?

As for going to frozen route, i check locally and small can be had for $2.75 with 15$ delievery fee so i would have purchase 50 to make it worthwhile. It works out cheaper but also means i have to have $100+ each time i make an order, its a good chunk of money i know i eventually spent that much anyways but its easier for my wallet to pay in smaller increments. Not to mention a 3 cu freezer would cost me $210 and i would need to have the freezer before i can order rats.


anybody have small collection like mine that breeds?

[snakesRkewl]

In any case why cant i feed rats human food? I'm not talking about junk food here, healthy maybe even raw food. Rats have survive on human scraps for millennium have they not? except for the food that is poisonous to them shouldn't they be ok? The mazuri dog food alot of people feed their rats are also just processed left over human food like any other dog food? If dogs can be raise on raw food why can't rats?

For the same reason dogs shouldn't be fed human food.
Raw food is one thing, human table scraps is not a healthy diet for rats.

http://www.ratfanclub.org/diet.html

[nachash]

[QUOTE=wolfy-hound;2043305] And I LIKE rats and I've worked some rank jobs, so cleaning out a dirty rat bin with rat urine and feces and the occasional dead half-eaten rat isn't as distasteful to me as it would be to most.[/QUO

And to that I say: I salute you. I just can't get into rats. I hate them. I think it's the constant urination that gets to me. I don't care how bad an acute smell is, but even a slightly unpleasant smell that's chronic will get to me. Also, those teeth are just menacing. They don't stab, or even cut. Those teeth essentially peel, or in another sense they flay. But hey, I like things that give others the heeby jeebies.

[nachash]

also if someone could explain how you get a part of post in the quote box that'd be stellar.... because apparently i don't know how too

[11anthony]

In any case why cant i feed rats human food? I'm not talking about junk food here, healthy maybe even raw food. Rats have survive on human scraps for millennium have they not? except for the food that is poisonous to them shouldn't they be ok? The mazuri dog food alot of people feed their rats are also just processed left over human food like any other dog food? If dogs can be raise on raw food why can't rats?

Rats have survive so long is because they breed like crazy. Pretty much any part of the world that isn't below freezing they can breed at. Most wild rats probably won't last more than 1-1.5 years tops.


Mazuri doesn't make dog food. When people talk about Mazuri on here, they are referring to Mazuri rodent diet. Rats require low protein food in order to live long. When they start eating high protein food like dog food, they develop health issues.

also if someone could explain how you get a part of post in the quote box that'd be stellar.... because apparently i don't know how too

You're missing OTE] on [/QUOTE].

[wolfy-hound]

Rodent food like mazuri is not leftover human food, nor is a regular dog food.

A rat can 'survive' on eating garbage. A snake can survive on eating once every few months. But you're keeping live animals, and if you want breeding healthy feeders, then you must care properly for them. Some people can and do use a quality dog food with added fresh vegetable/fruit etc. By the time you get the stuff to make a healthy diet, you're spending more time mixing it up, storing it, buying it, and you might as well buy a quality food. After all, you're making the food for your breeding snakes, so you want healthy quality rats.

You wouldn't buy frozen rats that were unhealthy skinny dirty rodents, and you don't want to produce anything but top quality feeders if you're going to put forth the time and effort to breed your own.

I can't say how much food or bedding you'd use, because that will depend on how many rats, what type and size of enclosure etc etc. I have a LOT of rats, over 50 breeding females with another 20 or so adult males, a bin of up to a dozen replacement females growing up, and the feeder bin full of weanling-feeder size and some extra males that I might want to use as breeders later. So I have at least a hundred rats at any given time, more if the rats have been producing heavily, less if not. I use a 50 lb bag of rodent diet in a week to two weeks, and a bale of pine bedding in a week to two weeks. The bag of food is about $25 and the bale of bedding is $5. So it is about $15-30 a week, depending on how many rats I have alive at that point.

I buy my feed at a local feed store every other week, and the bales of bedding when it's convenient to drop by Tractor Supply(I like the store!) depending on weather since I have a truck. Sometimes I'll buy 4-5 bales of bedding and sometimes I end up with extra food since I'm using less food than I'm buying. The rats have a back bedroom with a window and in one week, it can get stinky. I could clean more often than once a week, and it'd be fine.

[SaintTawny]

In any case why cant i feed rats human food? I'm not talking about junk food here, healthy maybe even raw food. Rats have survive on human scraps for millennium have they not? except for the food that is poisonous to them shouldn't they be ok?

As has been stated, raw food to meet the dietary needs to keep a rat colony healthy will quickly surpass the time and money that you're currently spending to buy them from someone else. As far as I understand, supplementing or treating them once in a while with non-toxic raw kitchen scraps isn't a terrible idea, but it shouldn't constitute the bulk of their diet. For example, when I bought a box of cereal that it turns out I didn't like, I used it as an occasional treat for the rats instead of just throwing it out. When I cut up a cantaloupe I put the rinds in with them for a few hours so they can eat the remaining fruit before I throw it out. I find it's a good way to be less wasteful, but it's not reasonable to expect to grow healthy rats on nothing but your castoffs.