bedding probs

[rikerHFFH]

Cleaned out the stinky snake cage i bought from sand to kiln pine... The snake seems to hate it wont go into his hide bur sleeps on top of it this normal?

[dr del]

Hi,

I'm not sure I follow.

What substrate are you using now?

It is fairly normal for them to take time to get used to the idea that a new hide is safe on occasion.

But if you meant you have sand in the tub you need to change it as it will end up with lagoons of snake pee in it and be a real pain to clean.


dr del

[rikerHFFH]

Hi,

I'm not sure I follow.

What substrate are you using now?

It is fairly normal for them to take time to get used to the idea that a new hide is safe on occasion.

But if you meant you have sand in the tub you need to change it as it will end up with lagoons of snake pee in it and be a real pain to clean.


dr del

I bought this neglected under feed snake cage was fyll of sand but wasnt cleaned for 4yrs. Took me 3 hours to clean it get rid of the stench. I put in kiln pine wood but odin seems to hate it doesnt go in his hiding spot but sleeps on top of it to stay off of the new bedding ill post a pic

[rikerHFFH]

[Inarikins]

He's probably not feeling secure. You're going to need to get him hides that don't have an opening in the back, or cover up the back of the half-log.

[RoseyReps]

Isn't pine toxic to reptiles? Or did I miss something?

[Mike41793]

Isn't pine toxic to reptiles? Or did I miss something?

Kiln dried is fine. It burns out the resins

[RoseyReps]

After a quick google search I see that some people say kiln dried is okay. So, I guess that's not it. Personally I wouldn't want to risk it, and I thought this post on iherp summed it up nicely for my point of view

"Although I've been collectiing reptiles probably way before most people on here were born (*cough not old..yet) I don't consider myself an expert with herps but I have been in the furniture industry for a long long time lol. I've had to do many tests on harmful emissions in environmental chambers. To put it simply without getting into technical jib jab Kiln drying is a process used to remove moisture from wood in order for it to be used for structural support with minimal expansion and sometimes used to reduce the moisture in firewood so there is less energy loss when burning it. As Michelle mentions it's the oils that generally emit the toxicities which are harmful. Kiln drying does not remove these oils 100% and only dries any remenents of it which in general could take years if dried naturally. Sorry I couldn't go back and find any data or testing on this because the kiln process focuses mainly on thoroughly removing moisture from wood. That being said in my opinion using it as a substrate under heated and humid conditions like in reptile enclosures just puts the moisture back into the pine and you're back to almost your original state. Arguments may be made against this and there may be some owners who may have never had any problems with kiln dried pine. There are too many variables to come to a definite conclusion if used for reptiles. Also from my experience, as in the way humans have different reactions to substances, different species will also be more sensitive than others to enviromental conditions including any toxicities or harmful emmissions in the air. For me personally as a rule of thumb, when in doubt don't use it. Not worth the risk for my animals."



That being said, the half log hide doesn't do well in the security department as others have said. I would get a small, tight fitting hide that only has one entry/exit point so that odin feels snug as a bug.

[Mike41793]

Skiploder has posted before that he's kept his snakes on kiln dried pine for years with no adverse effects.

[RoseyReps]

After a quick google search I see that some people say kiln dried is okay. So, I guess that's not it. Personally I wouldn't want to risk it, and I thought this post on iherp summed it up nicely for my point of view

"Although I've been collectiing reptiles probably way before most people on here were born (*cough not old..yet) I don't consider myself an expert with herps but I have been in the furniture industry for a long long time lol. I've had to do many tests on harmful emissions in environmental chambers. To put it simply without getting into technical jib jab Kiln drying is a process used to remove moisture from wood in order for it to be used for structural support with minimal expansion and sometimes used to reduce the moisture in firewood so there is less energy loss when burning it. As Michelle mentions it's the oils that generally emit the toxicities which are harmful. Kiln drying does not remove these oils 100% and only dries any remenents of it which in general could take years if dried naturally. Sorry I couldn't go back and find any data or testing on this because the kiln process focuses mainly on thoroughly removing moisture from wood. That being said in my opinion using it as a substrate under heated and humid conditions like in reptile enclosures just puts the moisture back into the pine and you're back to almost your original state. Arguments may be made against this and there may be some owners who may have never had any problems with kiln dried pine. There are too many variables to come to a definite conclusion if used for reptiles. Also from my experience, as in the way humans have different reactions to substances, different species will also be more sensitive than others to enviromental conditions including any toxicities or harmful emmissions in the air. For me personally as a rule of thumb, when in doubt don't use it. Not worth the risk for my animals."

Skiploder has posted before that he's kept his snakes on kiln dried pine for years with no adverse effects.

That's great for Skip I will not be using pine, ever, personally. Kiln or not, I just don't see the reward vs risk for it. I trust that Skip has indeed done it for years, and I'm sure he's read a crapton of articles / studies on it. I'm just a worry wart, so Aspen/unprinted newspaper is good for me