New BP, 1st Time Owner, vomiting snake? PLEASE HELP!

[robotswithscarves]

I've had my snake for roughly two and a half weeks and after unsuccessful attempts to feed him frozen-thaw got him to eat live on the 25th (5 days ago). When I came home today there was a floating mass in his waterbowl made up of fur and what looked like some slime holding it together, with a tiny bit of undigested bone or meat (I think it was part of the skull?). I flushed it down the toilet, but I now regret not getting a picture of it or bagging it for the vet. What is this? I'm worried that this is vomit and my snake is ill in some way. He's defecated and urinated since I got him and neither of those looked like this.

I've looked up some other forum posts and facts regarding vomit and regurgitation, and it could have been caused by tank temperatures (which I'm checking now but things have been stable from what I can tell), the fact that he's drank a lot in the last two days, the fact that he ate the mouse from feet to head, or the fact that I've been in my room almost constantly recently and this might have stressed him. How likely are any of these to have caused it, or is this something else I should be on the lookout for?

He's been sluggish since I got back and noticed the vomit, and after moving about a lot less than normal he's gone and curled up in his cold side hide.

So I guess in summary, is he ill or is he stressed/ate it weirdly? Also, how long after this should I feed him, and how should I feed him? How worried should I be?

[ewaldrep]

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-Questionaire

Sounds like you have a regurgitation on your hands, I have gone through it as well. Tbere may be a lot of reasons for the regurg so please respond with responses to the questions on the link so you can get the help you need.

[Vypyrz]

First, don't feed your snake again for about three weeks. It will take time for the stomach flora to build back up. Since your snake regurgitated 5 days after eating, I would take a look at your temperatures. Also, when you do feed again, go with a smaller prey...

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX using Tapatalk 2.

[OsirisRa32]

how are you measuring/ maintaining your temperatures? are you providing belly heat?

[PigZilla50317]

Wait a bit and let him Chill into the new surroundings and also check that you are not pushing to big of prey on him at once what was the previous owners feeding regiment and size of rodent?

[Sita]

Did the smell of it make you want to vomit? Or was it just a little stinky? Regurges are THE nastiest, stinkiest things I've ever smelled, and I've helped descent skunks! If it was just a little stinky, it might have been poo, but since it was sitting in the water, it disintegrated. There is usually a lot of fur and sometimes undigested bone in poo.

The drinking water and eating it backward would not cause a regurge. Improper temps and stress could though. Tell use exact temperatures, humidty, describe set-up, etc. and let us know what you're using to measure with. Analog thermometers can sometimes be way off, sometimes 10 degrees or more.

You should probably wait a while before feeding again, 3-4 weeks, depending on the age of the snake and body condition (how big is he?), and start with a small prey item.

[robotswithscarves]

To answer some of your questions, I've checked the temperatures over and they're completely normal. I also spoke with the breeder a lot during tank set up about the temperatures I was getting, and then had them look it over in person when they dropped off my snake so I doubt that's the issue. I've got a 50 Watt Daylight bulb in one end and a UTH under the other.

I'm beginning to wonder if it really was regurg because while it didn't exactly smell like roses it didn't reek like you say it should have. I spoke with a friend who has had three ball pythons for a while and she thinks it might just have been poo that broke up in the water. It was entirely fur except for the one piece of bone, and she said that they don't always break that down? Marcus isn't acting oddly at all, so I don't think he's sick.

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That questionnaire you linked me is really useful. ^_^ Here's some more info based on it:

- This occurred after the first time I've managed to get him to eat, as I had previously offered frozen-thawed and he hadn't been terribly interested. The breeder did have him eating frozen thawed but had started him on live, and live is what I got him to eat. He eats on a weekly schedule, which the breeder had set as Tuesday but I'm moving to Friday because my Tuesdays are really busy. This means that on the new schedule I would be feeding him tomorrow, and he has now gone 6 days since eating.
- The prey offered was a hopper mouse as this is what the breeder had been feeding him. The live hopper mouse was larger than the frozen-thawed ones, so I am wondering if this might have been the issue.
- Initially I had been offering him food more than once a week, because getting him to eat was my main priority after purchase. He was left alone for a couple days between each attempted feeding, and I did my best to only be in the room when I had to be so he would be as relaxed as possible.
- He lives in a glass walled, mesh-topped 30 gallon terrarium.
- I'm using the Zilla jungle bark as a substrate with a depth of about 2 inches. This is the bedding that came with the Snake Terrarium kit and was recommended for ball pythons.
- I do not have a thermostat controlling the temperatures, but I do have thermometers at either end of the tank for monitoring and a third thermometer I can move around the tank if I want a specific spot reading.- The average humidity level sits at the low end of 60%
- For hides he has a fake stone one from the reptile section of the pet store, and a cardboard box with a hole in it. He seems to have a preference for each based on whether it's night or day.
- He has an easily accessible water bowl that I refill whenever it gets within a centimeter of the bottom.
- I have no other pets that he shares an enclosure with, and my roommates cats are not allowed in my room so they don't harass him.
- I have yet to handle him because I wanted to have him feeding consistently before stressing him.
- The breeder said that he has had his first shed but other than that he has no medical history.

[ewaldrep]

I had two regurges and they did not stink horribly either. What I did was wait two weeks to feed a slightly smaller prey, then ten days, ten days, and then back to normal. I was worried about creating something referred to as "regurge syndrome". It worked out well for me.

From what you posted, I would recommend thinning out the substrate for the UTH and checking the heat directly above it because if it is getting warm enough on the top then below that substrate is probably hot enought to cause a burn if the snake burrows down there, especially if it is not on a thermostat. Thermostats are considred a necessity for a UTH. In addition, what are the temps that you are measuring? They should be around 78-82 ambient temps and 88-92 basking spot.

The only other thing I would suggest is getting two identical hides and put them with one on the cool side and one on the hot side. That way the snake won't have a preference for a partiluar hide and sacrifice heat for safety. Good luck and I'm sure others will chime in soon as well.

[Sita]

Most of your stuff sounds ok, especially the fact that you're not handling him until he's eating well for you! It sounds like you have a brand new hatchling, based on the size of food and that the breeder said he's only had one shed, is this correct? A 30 gallon tank is way too big for a baby, and can cause them a lot of stress. You could move him into a little tub, section of half the tank so he has a smaller area, or clutter the heck out of the whole tank. And by clutter, I mean at least 4 or 5 hides, fake plants all over, etc. Just stuff it full! This way he won't feel like he's out in the open all the time. You should probably also get some cardboard or construction paper and cover up 3 of the sides (on the outside) so he feels more "contained".

You may also start having troubles regulating the heat and humidity with a screen top tank. You can cover most of the lid with plexiglas or plastic wrap and a towel to help with that. 50-60% humidity should be good, bumping up to 70% while in shed. You do not need to soak a BP to "help" with shed; doing that can actually make the shed worse.

You definitely want to get a thermostat. UTHs can easily cause burns if they are not regulated. You can find one for about $30 on eBay (Hydrofarm brand).

Food size in general should be between 10-15% of the snake's weight. If you don't already have a kitchen scale to weigh your snake, go ahead and get one. It will be invaluable for the rest of your snake's life, as you can use it monitor weight gain or loss, weigh food items, or even use it as intended and measure your own food! Just be sure to clean it first,

I'm still thinking that it wasn't a regurge, especially now that you said it was entirely fur and a tiny piece of bone.