mystic vs phantom

[scooter11]

Soooooo I was looking into getting a female Mojave and taking a shot at a mystic potion. Now I know alot of people think mystics and phantoms are the same. What if any differences are there between mystic potion and purple passion?

[OhhWatALoser]

If there was a difference between mystic potion and purple passion, then you couldn't say the mystic and phantom are the same thing. From everything I have seen, I think its safe to say any "differences" are just the variations of the morphs involved.

[BFE Pets]

If there was a difference between mystic potion and purple passion, then you couldn't say the mystic and phantom are the same thing. From everything I have seen, I think its safe to say any "differences" are just the variations of the morphs involved.

So you agree that mystic and phantom are the same morph just 2 breeders artistic license on the name? Just curious. Also has anyone breed a phantom x mystic to see if the super comes out of that cross? I've always valued your opinion Owal and would like to hear your full take on these two morphs. I'm uncertain on of its like cinnamon + black pastel or if it is more like the bel complex. Thanks

[scooter11]

I hadn't thought of those two being bred. I'll be curious to hear that answer. Has anyone bred purple passions and mystic portions that notices any real difference?

[OhhWatALoser]

So you agree that mystic and phantom are the same morph just 2 breeders artistic license on the name? Just curious. Also has anyone breed a phantom x mystic to see if the super comes out of that cross? I've always valued your opinion Owal and would like to hear your full take on these two morphs. I'm uncertain on of its like cinnamon + black pastel or if it is more like the bel complex. Thanks

Yes i do believe them to be the same morph. I'm pretty sure both morphs were imported at different times and you wouldn't want to call them the same thing from the get-go. I mean look at axanthics, 3 different morphs, all look the same. Also remember the woma/HG woma confusion we still have today. So it only makes sense to call them something different until proven otherwise. By the time it is proven and we have seen enough examples, the name is so established that its hard to combine them in the minds of the entire hobby. I think many people like myself just see them as line names, no different than lemon pastel vs another pastel.

As far as the phantom/mystic, I have heard that it was done and looked like a super phantom or super mystic, exactly what we would expect, but never saw a picture or even know who supposedly done it. So if someone did do it, I don't think it's public or it just rumors. However both potions and passion are proven to be allelic combos, so if A=B and B=C then A must equal C. So mystic and phantom must be allelic or we need to rethink some things. Now what it actually looks like....we still have to see publicly, but imo there no reason to think it wouldn't just look like a super phantom/mystic.

I'm unsure what you mean by cinny + Black pastel vs BEL complex. Both are different complexes. cinny/black pastel is called an 8-ball. Het red is proven to be part of the cinny/ Black pastel complex also. BEL complex has a slew of morphs in it, phantom and mystic being two of them (if you consider them two lol).

[BFE Pets]

I personally can't pick out the difference between a black pastel and cinny. To me they are one in the same. Where as the lesser, Mojave, butter, etc all look different but you get the same super form when crossing any 2. More or less. So really I'm not even sure what I meant by my 1 st question any more lol. But thanks for the explanation/clarification of mystic/phantom. I was not aware that the het red was part of the cinny blk pastel complex. I'll have to check those out. Subtle morphs kick my a$$. The whole color blind thing doesn't make it easy lol.

[OhhWatALoser]

The whole color blind thing doesn't make it easy lol.

I feel your pain lol.

I think there are subtle difference that are consistent between the black pastel and cinny. At least with babies I can normally look at them and say it is one or the other and I'm right most of the time. Now as for what differences I am seeing.... I really don't know. Also I've never seen a super black pastel turn as brown as a super cinny. Not that I have seen many super black pastels, but I think they tend to be blacker into adulthood.

[h00blah]

From everything I have seen, I think its safe to say any "differences" are just the variations of the morphs involved.

THIS. On so many levels lol. Lessers and butters are the same... They are one of the most variable morphs ever.. Lessers never look the same, and butters never look the same. They all look completely different, they have the same super form, they combo the same, and when bred together, they produce the same super form lol. They're equal....

Super phantoms and super mystics look the same, they potions they produce look the same, and once somebody does mystic x phantom, they will see that they are the same.

I bet the same will be said with the orange dream / tangerine stuff. Ralph even said that he thinks the tangerine stuff is the same as OD. No point in changing the name since it's his line, and he can name it whatever he wants.

As was also stated, the woma / hgw confusion and the desert / desert ghost confusion is probably really frustrating for the newer folks, and I wish the breeders would really think about this before naming their morphs T.T...