pair flopping about inside the tub

[hungba]

Is it normal that after putting the male and the female together that during courtship they are flopping about? I have paired the male to 3 females in a cycle 3 days on 3 off since Nov 1st. They have locked up multiple times.
The last two times with this female I did not witness a lock, but perhaps they did. In the past I didn't hear anything nor see anything I just put them together and a few hours later saw they locked.

Now, I just put the male with the female and this time immediately they were flopping about inside. I heard flop sounds repeatedly like the tub was shaken. I also saw them cruising around on the ventilation holes (my tubs are opaque grey). I opened the tub and they sat still, but already peed all over. I saw the female on top of the male and it was the male who "pushed" the female off him and made a flopping sound.

I never saw this before and I have been pairing since november the 1st.

[REBELLMORPH]

i have same story last season,find out my nice pastel female is male and they lock for couple times before
yep,male to male lock until i think they figure out

[eatgoodfood]

Yeah it might be worth re-sexing them.

[PitOnTheProwl]

I would re-sex the "female"

[kitedemon]

Sounds like male combat to me too...

[Don]

I have a male pied that will sometimes display that type of behavior. He is definitely a male with a female who laid the year before (both proven breeders). If it is a violent reaction, knocking around the water bowl, etc. then remove the male and give him a break for a day then re-introduce. However, be sure to re-sex the female just to be sure.

[hungba]

I have put the male alone now. I will recheck the female in a couple days but I want to let them rest first after all this action. If a mistake was made, then let them rest a couple days won't make a difference anyway as my 1800 gram lesser would not be useful for my project and probably won't sell for much at all. Of course I love it as a pet but with limited rack space I may have to let it go, but I have grown attached to it. Man this ..., they had locked consistently every pairing for over a month...

I am a little worried, that if you guys are right and that is a male, then who won? Will my prized male if he lost not want to breed anymore? I have a feeling that this is not the first time this has happened, because the last two or three pairings with this "female" I did NOT see nor hear any "fighting" but when I opened the box the next day it was a huge mess and the water bowl overturned etc. So that would mean that male has been left with the "female" which may be male, and has fought a few times, for up to a day or two, without me knowing. He HAS locked up with my other female since then though, in fact, just before this one.

I had asked about it before when this happened both on forums and emailed a respected breeder privately and everyone told me to keep pairing that they do pee all over when breeding and things like nothing wrong with a little WWE action during love etc. etc.

This is my first year breeding and of course mistakes are made, but man this would be a bummer is that was a male. I only have a few snakes to breed that are up to size and I worked all year to get them that size. I bought this female at 1000 grams and she wasn't the best feeder and took a year got her to 1800 grams. She only eat live too.

I am not experienced with sexing snakes, although I do it under super vision of my experience friend each time I buy a snake, and he double checks me. This snake has been checked by the breeder (well known), myself, and my experienced friend when it first arrived. It would be really a bummer if it was still mis-sexed and I am quite frankly worried whether many of my other snakes are mis-sexed as quite a few of the females being raised up are from that breeder and checked by myself and my friend in the same way.

[hungba]

Before buying, I had looked the guy up on the "boards of inquiry" also and always multiple posts of the guy being good guy. I got two female lessers from him, and they are both on breeding cycle. I have one male and 3 females breeding this year. The other female is a pinstripe that I got from a local guy who just bought it and sold it as a pet. The thing is, for BOTH these lesser females gotten from there, they locked consistently with the male for over a month, but starting the last two or three pairings, they did not lock. This is the first time I saw "fighting" but for both these lesser females, the last few tries of pairing resulting in no locks seen, which does not mean no lock occured I know. But I saw the "fighting" with this one, and the other one I did not see a fight, but the tub was a mess with pee all over and bowl overturned too, much more mess than with this one.

[Don]

Don't worry about who "won". The male will still breed and in fact, may breed more readily than before. Also, it is a good idea to learn to sex snakes if you are going to breed. Get a good set of probes and learn to pop and probe. That way, you can be sure of what you have and what you are selling. Good luck!

[hungba]

I may add too, that for all the times that my pewter male has locked up with those two lesser "females", it was always the pewter male's tail UNDER the "females" tail. I know that males can lock up, but wouldn't that be a conincidence?

I really should go ahead and just probe all my snakes now, but I am feeling really kind of bummed out so not tonight.