Arguing Is Useless

[MasonC2K]

All of us have argued with someone and some point. I see a lot of arguing in these very forums. I am going to pass on some advice that was given to me recently.

It's always the same scenario. You and someone have an opposing view and you argue. You pretend to listen to what they are saying but what you're really doing is thinking about the weakness in their argument so you can disprove it. Or perhaps, if they debunked a previous point, you're thinking of new counter-arguments. Or, maybe, you've made it personal: it's not just the argument that's the problem. It's them. And everyone who agrees with them.

In some rare cases, you might think the argument has merit. What then? Do you change your mind? Probably not. Instead, you make a mental note that you need to investigate the issue more to uncover the right argument to prove the person wrong.

How likely is it that you will change your position in the middle of fighting for it? Or accept someone else's perspective when they're trying to hit you over the head with it? Arguing achieves a predictable outcome: it solidifies each person's stance. Which, of course, is the exact opposite of what you're trying to achieve with the argument in the first place. It also wastes time and deteriorates relationships.

There's only one solution.:

Stop arguing.

Resist the temptation to start an argument in the first place. If you feel strongly about something in the moment, that's probably a good sign that you need time to think before trying to communicate it.

If someone tries to draw you into an argument? Don't take the bait. Change the subject or politely let them know you don't want to engage in a discussion about it.

And if it's too late? If you're in the middle of an argument and realize it's going nowhere? Then you have no choice but to pull out your surprise weapon. The strongest possible defense, guaranteed to overcome any argument:

Listening.

Simply acknowledge the other and what they are saying without any intention of refuting his position. If you're interested, you can ask questions — not to prove them wrong — but to better understand them. Because listening has the opposite effect of arguing. Arguing closes people down. Listening slows them down. And then it opens them up. When someone feels heard, they relax. They feel generous. And they becomes more interested in hearing you.

That's when you have a shot of doing the impossible: changing that person's mind. And maybe your own. Because listening, not arguing, is the best way to shift a perspective. Then, when you want to leave the conversation, say something like, "Thanks for that perspective." Or "I'll have to think about that," and walk away or change the subject.

I'm not saying you should let someone bully you. Just draw a line and let them know it's not OK.

Not sure if this will make a difference or not. But maybe someone will read this and try not to get all bent out of shape over things. Hopefully it will make a difference in me as I am pretty bad about arguing myself.

[Don]

Shut up Chris, you are wrong.

[TJ_Burton]

Why are you trying to take all the fun out of the forum?

[Mike41793]

Argue sounds so negative, i prefer the word debate.

[rlditmars]

Are you accusing me of being argumentative?

[decensored]

I agree.

However, debate is important. Especially in a forum setting.

The issue lies not in the dynamic of argument, but in the execution. People let their emotions fuel their involvement, and that;s where an argument turns into a battle.

Very interesting approach though, I was impressed with your evaluation!

[Valentine Pirate]

This is very similar to my feelings as far as arguing in person goes. I've never been a fan of confrontation, and I'd much prefer to talk things out and listen than elevate to shouting and/or repeating my stance over and over.

I do agree with decensored though that debate is important in a forum setting, and that it is all about execution. Some of the biggest tiffs in this place are from misunderstanding another user (taking things personally, negatively, thinking they're putting their position down, being under the impression there's only 1 way to do things, etc)

[h00blah]

Argue/debate.. I prefer "discussion". .

Don has a good point though. I would walk away and think about that if I were you .

I think people are obsessed with getting the last word. Not all, but a good chunk. Your advice is what I've been practicing, and it seems to work. Argue to listen, not to counter. Especially in my line of work, when we'e able to discuss possible additions to a game. When someone has an idea, you MUST hear them out. Too many times you hear the SAME person interrupt the person presenting an idea, and he'll pose a problem of a suggestion that is an extremely rare scenario. This often drives the focus elsewhere, and people forget just how rare this issue would be. It really slows the design process down, as Mason stated.

I really hope a lot of people read your advice. It really doesn't just apply to forums.

[RoseyReps]

This is very similar to my feelings as far as arguing in person goes. I've never been a fan of confrontation, and I'd much prefer to talk things out and listen than elevate to shouting and/or repeating my stance over and over.

I do agree with decensored though that debate is important in a forum setting, and that it is all about execution. Some of the biggest tiffs in this place are from misunderstanding another user (taking things personally, negatively, thinking they're putting their position down, being under the impression there's only 1 way to do things, etc)

Alas, I cannot live down my name. So I will continue to be bullheaded and argue with anyone who dares disagree with me! Muwhahaha

Seriously though, nice write up. I couldn't agree more. I definitely get into that "Listening to find a hole in their argument" mode, as much as I dislike it. I've been working on being a better listener / less argumentative for a few years now. It's definitely improved, but there are still those that just have a way of getting under my skin. I'm trying to better myself though! I swears!

[wolfy-hound]

I think you're "arguing" semantics.

An argument is a discussion where the two(or more)parties do not agree. Opposing viewpoints do not mean that neither party is open to hear the other side. You are attempting to present your viewpoint in relation to what the other party's viewpoint is.

A discussion where you listen and do not present your viewpoint is not a true discussion. It's a lecture with one person presenting a topic and one person being an audience. Neither is benefiting from the other's viewpoint. Having a lecture and then switching so the other person gives their lecture does not serve to mesh the viewpoints so they can be discussed at all.

Fighting is where each person has a viewpoint and refuses to consider that another viewpoint may be valid. So I would say that you're opposed to fighting and wish that people would argue and discuss instead.

I have considered an opposing viewpoint in the midst of arguing my own... I have even changed my mind mid-argument due to the opposing person's arguments. I also have left an argument without conceding my own viewpoint but determined to look into the opposing viewpoint in order to see if it is valid... not to prove it wrong automatically. I attempt to see both sides, and sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm wrong.

The only true time when people disagree and it's stupid to try to force the opposing party to agree is in matters of opinion. If I like Country music and you like Rap... that's opinions. Neither is wrong, neither is right. Liking morph BPs or liking normals only is opinions, not facts. Saying that morphs are unhealthy and normals are healthy is facts that you can present or dispute.