Proven/unproven

[dprballs]

Hey guys my plan was to start buying some snakes over the coming year in anticipation to begin breeding next year, however i now have 3 female normals (was originally buying 2 but seller was let down by another buyer so i had the 3 ) 1 is proven, at 2kg, 2 are unproven. I got these off a reptile vet whos moving abroad so as you can imagine these girls have been well brought up (at least i hope lol). So i thought id get a male sharpish and try and go this year. And then i decided on spending the money i have instead of on one double/multi gene male, on two males 2 improve my chances of getting some eggs as that is my sole aim this year(just hatch a clutch, ANY clutch). I dont have any snake keeping friends in the real world so to speak so no one to turn to when i run into inevitable problems! So really want experience hands on! Ive never even seen a snake egg lol

Which leads me to my question: How many snakes wont/dont breed??

Ive bought 1 male cinnamon who was pretty cheap, hes 1.1kg and the owner hadnt had him long and as far as he knows he hasnt bred before(or tried). So i was hoping to get another proven male, as im thinking this would be better.

Trouble is ive found a pastel(which is a gene i defo want for the future) whos around a kilo and has never been paired but isnt particularly cheap(or expensive for that matter). I dunno wether to hold out and wait for a proven male though?

Bare in mind i wanna get a male asap so i can quarantine for as long as possible prior to breeding in december (i now ppl say u can do it ne time of year but seems its the most popular time by far so gonna go with that i think)

Oh and btw when i say "i decided" anywhere in the above post/ramble what i mean is you guys helped me to reach the right decision, youve been a great help so far, so thanks a lot!!

[dprballs]

PS apologies for total lack of breeding related knowledge....bought the females coz they were too good to turn down and have been messed about by online retailer with the ECO book which is arriving monday(it better be anyway ) so hopefully ill be reading that and leaving you guys to it then lol

[RoseyReps]

This is just my opinion / speculation ..but in my hhead proven doesn't mean much when looking at boys. Sure, he bred no problem to the female he was paired with prior, but even with a proven boy there is no guarantee he's going to go for your girl. I've heard from a few different people that sometimes two snakes just don't jive. I would rather buy boys that are of superior quality than to get one because it's "proven". If the pastel boy is a great looking pastel and awesome example, I'd go for it. If it's middle of the road I wouldn't. This is just my opinion, take from it what you will. Good luck!

[dprballs]

This is just my opinion / speculation ..but in my hhead proven doesn't mean much when looking at boys. Sure, he bred no problem to the female he was paired with prior, but even with a proven boy there is no guarantee he's going to go for your girl. I've heard from a few different people that sometimes two snakes just don't jive. I would rather buy boys that are of superior quality than to get one because it's "proven". If the pastel boy is a great looking pastel and awesome example, I'd go for it. If it's middle of the road I wouldn't. This is just my opinion, take from it what you will. Good luck!

Thanks for the input. Hadnt really thought of it like that (different pairings not getting on) i suppose its the same as humans, some like sex more than others. I think subconsciously i was mirroring your thoughts.....i was thinking surely there cant be that many infertile/unwilling to mate snakes about or they wouldnt have lasted thousands of years as a species!?

Thanks again. I shall now place more importance on the reputation of the source IE how well i think the snakes have been looked after by their current owner. I wouldnt really be able to recognise any problems with a snake unless they were glaringly bad as im so inexperienced, but its usually pretty obvious when u get there and meet the person, see their set ups etc. wether or not they are caring for their snakes well. Obviously i would do this when purchasing any animal but seen as im hoping to breed so quickly i really need a snake thats in prime condition right now, rather one thats bred before.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Out of 12 males, I have one that hasn't bred for me so far, 1 that breeds most of the time but took a year off, and the others breed reliably. I have never had a receptive female turn down a male that was interested in breeding, and vice versa. (If the male isn't interested, he won't breed with any of the girls--if the female isn't interested, she won't breed with any of the boys--so far. I test them out to be sure, when it happens, and I have never found an 'incompatibility' issue).

[dprballs]

Out of 12 males, I have one that hasn't bred for me so far, 1 that breeds most of the time but took a year off, and the others breed reliably. I have never had a receptive female turn down a male that was interested in breeding, and vice versa. (If the male isn't interested, he won't breed with any of the girls--if the female isn't interested, she won't breed with any of the boys--so far. I test them out to be sure, when it happens, and I have never found an 'incompatibility' issue).

Thanks for the reply. I suspected as much. As it happens, after all this it turns out of the snakes on my shortlist the ones from the most reputable sources are proven anyway typical lol

The pastel was privately advertised, and he said he hadnt him long. Hes now told me he runs a shop and just "buys them 2 sell them" which hardly inspires confidence lol!! How much money can there be in buying proven males, not breeding them and then selling them? Something doesnt add up to me.

Soooo. Ive got my shortlist down to 3 now....pinstripe 900g, £300, Yellowbelly 900g £125, or a Graziani line Pastel 1100g £150.

The pastel doesnt look too great to me although i think they darken with age? theres a pic of a lovely female he produced last year.

Off to calculate if i have enough to purchase the pinstripe i think lol

[Kaorte]

I personally wouldn't bother buying snakes from "flippers" (people who buy and sell snakes to make a profit). They don't know the history of the animal and are usually only in it for the money. Who knows how they take care of their animals.

I would pass on the pastel male honestly. Save up for a pastel female if you want to work with the gene. Or a double gene of some sort. Double gene animals have been coming down in price recently. Not sure how the market is over there though.

[dprballs]

I personally wouldn't bother buying snakes from "flippers" (people who buy and sell snakes to make a profit). They don't know the history of the animal and are usually only in it for the money. Who knows how they take care of their animals.

I would pass on the pastel male honestly. Save up for a pastel female if you want to work with the gene. Or a double gene of some sort. Double gene animals have been coming down in price recently. Not sure how the market is over there though.

Yeah thanks buddy, these are my thoughts exactly. Ive taken a bit of a chance with the cinny as explained in my other thread - http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post1923338

which is actually about a pinstripe i have found(pics in thread gonna get him 2moro hopefully) which is hopefully from a good breeder(this is also covered in the other thread aswell lol)