Help with Ideas for the future of my bredli project.....

[jjmitchell]

So I have loved carpets for a long (bredli mainly) time and only recently purchased a pair of striped bredli.... I hope to work hypo into the project as soon as possible but for now it is not available....

I recently saw a nice bredli jag on fauna for sale, and it made me think...... Would a caramel jag x striped bredli be cool..... and what will happen if you breed the offspring back to the other striped animal in my pair..... I would assume that it would possibly produce striped caramel jags 75% bredli, I have done alot of searching on the web and cant find anything about this type of breeding.... I am hoping someone can help with info, or just give me some oppenions on will it be a worth while project....

I see alot of people working with high % ij, and jungle jags but not hardly anyone working with bredli crosses... Is there a reason for it? I would think the natural red of the bredli would make bright red jags especially with the caramel thrown in, and it seems people really dig the red jags.....

So long story short HELP!! I need info good bad or ugly lol

Thank you for taking the time to read this and any input I can get will be greatly appreciated
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[jjmitchell]

Well I have spoke to Mr. Nick Mutton on the subject a good amount and think I have made some decisions....

Honestly I dont post alot on this forum, but often try to help people on here, and its kinda aggravating that as many times as I post trying to help others, that when I ask for suggestions I always end up like this.... with no one offering any advice or suggestions...... Kinda makes me wonder why I bother...

[reptileexperts]

Justin,

sorry for delays, I'm usually really active on the carpet forum, but have been busy so I'm just now catching this.

The Jaguar gene reduces dark pigmentation, on top of that it reduces pattern. If you add that into a striped bedlii, then you are going to end up with something that may just look like a Jaguar in all honesty. . . Many people do not cross breeds because when you deal with Jaguar siblings, people will mislable them as "pures" or say "Pure Jungle Jag Sibling" Irony right? As long as you know your percentages and can prove it out to customers, I see no problem in dabbling with this. I'm currrently working Caramel Jag into the Irian Jaya lines I have, and plan on working Jag Granites into the mix with holding back some hets. Has it been done? Sure, but it's still a pretty amazing looking snake!

Sounds like you already know what the genetics are on it - Keep in mind that a Caramel is a co-dom that does have a super form and you can hope to hit a super caramel (almost no dark pigmentation at all when you hit this with Jag). Your Striped gene is recessive in Bredlii and so you would produce 100% hets and then have to go from there with the project, but that would allow you to shoot for super caramel striped jag bredlii 75%, then when you breed those out you would get a guarenteed Caramel Het striped, and then the Jag gene would be up in the air.

Also keep in mind that the jag gene is a co dom with the super form being a lucy type snake that has poor development and ends up dying in the late or sometimes early stages of development. So while you can breed Jag to Jag, its back to the Spyder to Spyder conudrum that is pointless to argue here.

Hypo - yep I want to get in on that project too, will I? nope. I'd much sooner buy into Roughy's at a slightly lower buy in price and breed something that I think 1-2 people in the US work on that are of a lot of general interest, rather than Hypo Bredlii which ONLY Nick Mutton works with at the moment, with not many people at all showing much interest in them, the buy in right now is not worth it unless you have a few thousands just itching to be spent on a single snake to work into a project in 4 years that may or may not be in demand. That's all based on personal choice though.

Feel free to message me and I'll talk carpets all day long, I've got quite a food breeding projects in my works, with a good number of stuff coming straight from Nick Mutton as well.

Cheers

- - - Updated - - -

Should also be known that you'd be crossing two species, and they may not be reproductively successful
- m. bredli
- m. spilota

Unlike the other crosses which are done within the same species, but different sub species. . . doesn't mean the cross won't work, just does not mean the offspring will be genetically viable. . . think of a mule?

However, on that note, as Nick and I have discussed - Species are just our way of bracketing living organisms into a framework we can understand. . . beyound that the definition of "species" as presented in modern biology literally just means that they are organisms that can produce sexually viable offspring that can then produce successive generations.

[jjmitchell]

Hey man i appreciate you getting back to me about this.... I have spoke quite a bit about this to Nick, him pointing out that this would be a hybrid rather than a cross breed of localities made me change my mind on the subject. I will work with bredli no matter what because they are simply my favorite Morelia ...... I do however want a hypo... Will I buy one when they cost that much Probably Not..... I just cant afford to dump that kinda money into a project that I realistically know will never make money when that money could go into my SD retic, ball python, or boa projects and do very well....

I do however want a caramel jag male still to bred to the random female IJ I inherited (long story lol).... I think the high percentage IJ Jags look great and caramel or super caramel would only make it look better.... I saw the animals Ed Lilly produced this year from an IJ x caramel jag breeding... It was interesting, Nick was quick to warn me that the visual offspring looked nice, but the normal babies would be a hard sell (I personally would probably whole sale them).... Then again, I may just use the IJ to get another female bredli ( I doubt it because like I said I love the Bredli but no one seems to buy em but dummies like me )

I do know I have a lot to learn in the Morelia world, but it seems much harder than any of the other things I have learned since i started in the herp world.... I had great people guide me through the bp stuff in the begining, I learned the boa stuff by myself (pretty easy to understand really) and the SD retics well I have a pretty good guy helping me get started up with that project also... Honestly most of the stuff I read and just tear into it, but Morelia seems so much more complex.... it is a carpet but it isnt, ect lol.... I also like diamonds but dont know if I can accomodate their picky nature to breed them.... I may just choose to work with bredli alone.....

[reptileexperts]

Diamonds just need it to be cooler than the other python species as they are more tropic than the scrubby tropics that other Morelia are found in. IJ sibs pretty much don't sell unless people lie about the genetics. I'll be producing 87.5% IJ jags that are 100%het granite and even these siblings at 87.5%IJ being fully het granite just won't see easily but the 50% jags will. Very easily. Which will make up for it in the long run of things.

As nick said species to species makes it a hybrid. Can have sweet offspring but they will be very hard to produce as living hatchlings. And then those can't be sold for anything other that a designer pet which may or may not have a market.

Some of the best advice giving me when I got Into working with Morelia is simply breed what you love. Not what the market loves. There are plenty of breeders for the basics. Some for the good morphs but it means nothing if you're not breeding what you want to breed into. One of my next big Morelia investments is going to be a pair of zebra jungle carpets So I can produce those super sweet patternless super zebra. But again it's because that's what I enjoy and want to raise up.

If bredl are your cup of tea dive in and breed them! Just don't make morelia choices based on what could make you money Because at current the market is quite shaky.