Wild caught rat snake husbandry

[Slashmaster]

I have someone asking me about their brand new wild caught red rat snake... I'm unfortunately not very familiar with anything colubrid. They're currently concerned that it's not eating, so husbandry is the first thing I'm checking with them...

Do you guys have any links to a good, solid caresheet?

[rlditmars]

I don't know where the friend lives, but here in Georgia it is illegal to capture, keep, or harass, any wild caught snake but those that are venomous.

Before you get too involved you may want to check the laws and ordinances governing where they live.

[gsarchie]

If you are just looking to help out, and not police, your friend with the new addition, then you can tell them what you know about BP husbandry and just exchange rat snake for BP. Temps should be the same, preferably provided by a heating pad under the tank controlled by a thermostat. They typically need less moisture than a ball would and they like to have a hide, just like a ball. Any substrate that you can use for a ball can be used with rat snakes.

What did they try to feed it and was the prey item sized properly? Did they try F/T or live? I don't know anything about the ecology of the snake in question but it is possible that they could be attempting to feed it the wrong prey items (i.e. mice to a lizard eater, lizards to rodent eater, etc.). How long have they had it? It may take a while for the animal to feel safe in its new surroundings and feel comfortable eating but after that it shouldn't be an issue. Did they try to feed it right after getting it?

[rlditmars]

If you are just looking to help out, and not police, ......

My remarks are with regard to people who take it upon themselves to ignore safegaurds which exist for the protection and continued existence of the species, and covet wild animals for themselves when there are plenty of captive bred Red Rat (corn) snakes available for purchase. Without these safeguards, greed would win and the people who could, would exploit the animals for the pet trade to the point of extinction. I'm sure there are ornithology enthusiasts who would love to see a passenger pigeon land in thier yard. But sadly, they can only go to the smithsonian and see one of the two that had been mounted about 90 years ago. They used to swarm in flocks that would cover the skies from horizon to horizon.

As for an example of a snake, one only needs to look at the Eastern Indigo snake. The numbers are stabilizing, but still only in a smaller range. They dwindled to the point of endangered, largely because they are a large, non venimous, attractive snake that people caught to sell. They don't procreate at a rate that could recover against the numbers that were being removed from the wild by profiteers, until legislation corrected the situation.

I don't make the laws but they exist for a purpose. If we ignore them arbitrarily, then we have anarchy. Perhaps you may consider that if you have a problem with that, rather then attacking others comments, you should be constructively proactive and try to change legislation that you feel is unwarranted.

Where's the line you've drawn?

If someone where to hurt a family member of yours, and a friend of theirs thinks they were in the right, how would you feel about them assiting the person in question, to hideout from authorities. Hey they are just being a friend, not policing, right?

[gsarchie]

My remarks are with regard to people who take it upon themselves to ignore safegaurds which exist for the protection and continued existence of the species, and covet wild animals for themselves when there are plenty of captive bred Red Rat (corn) snakes available for purchase. Without these safeguards, greed would win and the people who could, would exploit the animals for the pet trade to the point of extinction. I'm sure there are ornithology enthusiasts who would love to see a passenger pigeon land in thier yard. But sadly, they can only go to the smithsonian and see one of the two that had been mounted about 90 years ago. They used to swarm in flocks that would cover the skies from horizon to horizon.

As for an example of a snake, one only needs to look at the Eastern Indigo snake. The numbers are stabilizing, but still only in a smaller range. They dwindled to the point of endangered, largely because they are a large, non venimous, attractive snake that people caught to sell. They don't procreate at a rate that could recover against the numbers that were being removed from the wild by profiteers, until legislation corrected the situation.

I don't make the laws but they exist for a purpose. If we ignore them arbitrarily, then we have anarchy. Perhaps you may consider that if you have a problem with that, rather then attacking others comments, you should be constructively proactive and try to change legislation that you feel is unwarranted.

Where's the line you've drawn?

If someone where to hurt a family member of yours, and a friend of theirs thinks they were in the right, how would you feel about them assiting the person in question, to hideout from authorities. Hey they are just being a friend, not policing, right?

Ummm... wow. Hold on while I finish the laugh that I'm having...


Alright then. Hahaha. Wow. Talk about someone with thin skin that likes to blow things out of proportion and loves the worst case scenario when looking at life! Part of me feels like deleting what I've already written and just ignoring your post, but alas, I am stuck in a place where I have nothing but time on my hands. Aside from that I now feel the need to defend my postion (like it really matters on the internet anyway!!!). Oh, the futility of it all. LOL

Anyway...
Passenger pigeons were hunted out of existence, not caught for private trade as pets. As with most species that are in trouble in the world the biggest factor with the decline in indigo snakes is from habitat loss, not overcollecting. I'm sure that if it were, there would be laws against keeping them; as it stands only a handful of states even require permits to keep them!

Don't get it twisted, I am a tree hugging hippy and would love to "save the world" from the human species. In my opinion we are the worst thing ever to happen to the planet from an evolutionary perspective. I studied ecology in college and I long for the days before even Native Americans arrived in North America so that I could see what wooly mammoths and multi-ton ground sloths were like, not to mention saber-toothed tigers, horses, and other megafauna that ranged here before humans wiped them out(and in only 1000 years of being on the continent!).

Now with that said, I am not a police officer and it is not my job to enforce the laws that our legislature has established for us. If I see someone speeding will I politely ask them at the next stoplight to please slow it down because the speed limit is 35, not 55? Absolutely not, and unless you do as well you're being a hypocrite. If someone else desires anarchy, that is up to them. As a member of the U.S. Army I affirmed to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Me not telling a buddy to return a snake to the wild doesn't fall into that realm, therefore I'm going to keep on keepin' on with my life and worry about me and my family and friends.

As for your question about someone hurting my family or a friend of mine, I am generally a teddy bear but if someone messes with what I love I go from teddy bear to a pissed off grizzly in 0.1 seconds. However, your question has no merit as there would certainly be circustances that would have led up to the incident in question, and if the fault were that of my loved one then I would hold them accountable for their own actions. If not I'd help my loved one end the conflict swiftly and resolutely.

Why I wasted 5 minutes of my life typing this I'll never know. Maybe it's because I like a good debate. Either way, try no to fall off of your high horse (from where I sit here it looks like quite a long wat to the ground!).

[Slashmaster]

I don't know where this person lives - though I think it might be Florida - they're a friend from the internet. I tried to convince them to release it again since they didn't even know what it was when they caught it, but they're not budging. Best thing I can do is make sure they have the proper knowledge on its husbandry. From what they've told me, it doesn't look like it.

@gsarchie

Thanks for the info! I am under the impression that they tried to feed it right away after catching it. They said that it won't come out from under the half log they have in the tank (methinks the tank might be too big too, since they got that size tank to keep the snake in through adulthood, but I don't know how picky ratsnakes are the way balls like small, secure tanks). I'll see if I can get them to correct the husbandry requirements (or at least pass along requirements for a BP, at the very least, unless anyone has a correction to that with a rat snake). They didn't know what substrate was and they aren't measuring temp or humidity... bah

[ChrisS]

Red rats are corn snakes.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I have someone asking me about their brand new wild caught red rat snake... I'm unfortunately not very familiar with anything colubrid. They're currently concerned that it's not eating, so husbandry is the first thing I'm checking with them...

Do you guys have any links to a good, solid caresheet?

As suggested above make sure the animal kept is legal in the state where your friend lives.


As for caresheet most colubrids species have the same requirement cool area in the mid 70's (74/76) hot spot in the mid low to mid 80's (82/84) hot spot similar to BP is overkilled for colubrids in my opinion (I keep several species of colubrids and they seems to do much better with hot spot no higher than 85

Otherwise as far as caresheet you can follow this (minus the temps) http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...uttata-guttata)

[rlditmars]

Ummm... wow. Hold on while I finish the laugh that I'm having...


Alright then. Hahaha. Wow.


Now with that said, I am not a police officer and it is not my job to enforce the laws that our legislature has established for us. If I see someone speeding will I politely ask them at the next stoplight to please slow it down because the speed limit is 35, not 55? Absolutely not, and unless you do as well you're being a hypocrite. If someone else desires anarchy, that is up to them. As a member of the U.S. Army I affirmed to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Me not telling a buddy to return a snake to the wild doesn't fall into that realm, therefore I'm going to keep on keepin' on with my life and worry about me and my family and friends.

As for your question about someone hurting my family or a friend of mine, I am generally a teddy bear but if someone messes with what I love I go from teddy bear to a pissed off grizzly in 0.1 seconds. However, your question has no merit as there would certainly be circustances that would have led up to the incident in question, and if the fault were that of my loved one then I would hold them accountable for their own actions. If not I'd help my loved one end the conflict swiftly and resolutely.

Why I wasted 5 minutes of my life typing this I'll never know. Maybe it's because I like a good debate. Either way, try no to fall off of your high horse (from where I sit here it looks like quite a long wat to the ground!).

If my retort offered some levity to your day, then I am glad. I will agree that my skin can be thin and my horse can get awfully high sometimes. Gotta keep him away from the Loco weed. But I do so love a good debate with a worthy opponant and I hope you don't really feel the 5 minutes was wasted.

My response to slashmaster, though perhaps extreme, was just meant to remind us to think beyond the question. See the bigger picture. I use worst case scenarios to make visible the slippery slope. I used the passenger pigeon because it was still profiteers, be it market hunters or pet traders.

And to answer you question, I would not knock on the window of soemone who is speeding and ask them to slow down, so, "Hypocrisy, thy name is me". But if they rolled down the window and asked for directions, I'd probably say something. Slashmaster invited members of the blog to give advice in an open forum. Was I a bit off target? Perhaps. But I offered my opinion.

I also agree that you nor I can save the world, but there is nothing wrong with making a small effort, such as providing my $0.02.

As for you, I have nothing but respect and appreciation for who you are and what you do as a member of our military. People like you provide people like me, the very freedom to not only have an opinion, as misguided as you may think it it to be, but to express it. For that I am truly greatful. Thank you. Stay safe and get home as quickly as you can.

I will now step down out of the stirrup before I break my arm. You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

[gsarchie]

Since it was again suggested to make sure that it is legal to keep the snake I will add one more tid bit. I didn't suggest this because 1) I don't feel that it is my responsibility to do so and 2) you came here asking how to help your friend and nothing else, so I did the best that I could. It's like telling someone you don't know who is smoking outside a bar that they should quit because it is bad for their health. It is unwelcomed and usually just upsets people.

As for young colubrids, I find that something the size of a shoebox is just right. A small hide and a water dish along with a heat pad under one side and they will be golden. I was given a hatchling black rat snake as a graduation gift from a friend. Their cats had been playing with it and Peter rescued it thinking that I would be able to take care of it. I did, it ate for me no problem, though I didn't try to feed it for a week, and when it's scars were healed after a few sheds, I let the little guy go in my backyard (I have a natural waterway back there; there was plenty of habitat for it and I'd seen black rats back there before so I knew it was suitable). I did worry somewhat about artificial transfer of genetic material over that distance (40 miles) but not so much that I drove back to where he had been collected from to release him. Best of luck to your friends, whether they keep the little one or decide to release it back from where it came.